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Sebastian Delcampe presents the future of Delcampe!

  • Account eliminato
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    Svezia

    Le informazioni non sono più disponibili perché l'account di questo utente è stato eliminato (Regolamento RGPD).
  • stevehillstamps
    stevehillstamps 100% (14520x)
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    223 messaggi

    Regno Unito

    Le informazioni non sono più disponibili perché l'account di questo utente è stato eliminato (Regolamento RGPD).
    The sales fee absolutely should be included in this calculation. We are calculating total fees due to Delcampe on our salesand stores whether paid for by the buyer or seller so we can compare like with like. As sammlerkalle and I show this is a huge increase.

    You are correct however that all things being equal prices charged by the seller should be reduced as we do not have to pay for the fees ourselves. I've redone my calculation taking into account a GBP 0.14 per item and 7% discount under the new scheme and the total fee increase comes out at a much more reasonable (not) 114% increase (down from 120%) due to a smaller FVF as prices have decreased.
  • sammlerkalle
    sammlerkalle 100% (12545x)
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    873 messaggi

    Germania

    Le informazioni non sono più disponibili perché l'account di questo utente è stato eliminato (Regolamento RGPD).
    Of course I have to include the sales fee in the calculation. Because that's money that ultimately doesn't go to me from the sales price, but to Delcampe. And for me the only thing that counts is what actually ends up with me from the sales price. Please don't be blinded by the blurred representation that Delcampe presents.
  • sammlerkalle
    sammlerkalle 100% (12545x)
    PRO free

    873 messaggi

    Germania

    And another addendum: So far I can declare the sales fees to the tax office as costs, which reduces my tax liability. This also no longer applies with the new model, which represents an additional financial disadvantage for me.
  • Account eliminato
    Account eliminato

    0 messaggi

    Svezia

    The sales fee absolutely should be included in this calculation. We are calculating total fees due to Delcampe on our salesand stores whether paid for by the buyer or seller so we can compare like with like. As sammlerkalle and I show this is a huge increase.

    You are correct however that all things being equal prices charged by the seller should be reduced as we do not have to pay for the fees ourselves. I've redone my calculation taking into account a GBP 0.14 per item and 7% discount under the new scheme and the total fee increase comes out at a much more reasonable (not) 114% increase (down from 120%) due to a smaller FVF as prices have decreased.
    Le informazioni non sono più disponibili perché l'account di questo utente è stato eliminato (Regolamento RGPD).
  • stevehillstamps
    stevehillstamps 100% (14520x)
    PRO standard

    223 messaggi

    Regno Unito

    And another addendum: So far I can declare the sales fees to the tax office as costs, which reduces my tax liability. This also no longer applies with the new model, which represents an additional financial disadvantage for me.
    As your income has gone down by that amount also it will be tax neutral I think if done correctly.

    My concern is that they muck this up by managing to charge buyers fees to sellers payment accounts (e.g. paypal or mangopay) and deducting them. As I see it, this would then make them fees paid by the seller to Delcampe and should be invoiced accordingly. We also get stung on the transaction fees in paypal.

    To work correctly this should be Delcampe Receives payment from Buyer. Delcampe Deducts Buyer Fees. Delcampe transfers remainder to seller. Invoices and all other paperwork should also make plain that buyers fees, import fees and associated admin fees are being charged by Delcampe (not the seller) and include all relavent information (VAT numbers, company numbers etc) to support that part of the transaction legally in the buyers jurisdiction.
  • Account eliminato
    Account eliminato

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    Svezia

    Of course I have to include the sales fee in the calculation. Because that's money that ultimately doesn't go to me from the sales price, but to Delcampe. And for me the only thing that counts is what actually ends up with me from the sales price. Please don't be blinded by the blurred representation that Delcampe presents.
    Le informazioni non sono più disponibili perché l'account di questo utente è stato eliminato (Regolamento RGPD).
  • Account eliminato
    Account eliminato

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    Svezia

    As your income has gone down by that amount also it will be tax neutral I think if done correctly.

    My concern is that they muck this up by managing to charge buyers fees to sellers payment accounts (e.g. paypal or mangopay) and deducting them. As I see it, this would then make them fees paid by the seller to Delcampe and should be invoiced accordingly. We also get stung on the transaction fees in paypal.

    To work correctly this should be Delcampe Receives payment from Buyer. Delcampe Deducts Buyer Fees. Delcampe transfers remainder to seller. Invoices and all other paperwork should also make plain that buyers fees, import fees and associated admin fees are being charged by Delcampe (not the seller) and include all relavent information (VAT numbers, company numbers etc) to support that part of the transaction legally in the buyers jurisdiction.
    Le informazioni non sono più disponibili perché l'account di questo utente è stato eliminato (Regolamento RGPD).
  • stevehillstamps
    stevehillstamps 100% (14520x)
    PRO standard

    223 messaggi

    Regno Unito

    Le informazioni non sono più disponibili perché l'account di questo utente è stato eliminato (Regolamento RGPD).
    Buyers will compare total prices and spend (or not) accordingly.

    Moving a fee from sellers to the buyer makes no difference to this so the comparison is valid. You as a seller saying it is nothing to do with you any more is mssing the point as it will impact your sales.

    The Delcampe 'guarantee' will work similarly to the paypal one as far as I can see. You as a seller will end up paying for any compensation if the buyer is not satisfied. The main difference will be that Delcampe will be able to initiate this with paypal directly on the buyers behalf rather than the buyer having to approach paypal. I dont see any change for mangopay transactions coming along as they should already be able to do this (or the buyer may initiate a chargeback to resolve that is very expensive for mangopay to process).

    Your last point regarding Delcampe cashflow is likely what the new structure is about. Its a cash grab to cover their costs (or additional profits). It could work but the fee rises overall are so steep that they must be including a significant percentage of sellers and buyers moving elsewhere (or not buying/selling in the same volume) in their calculations.
  • sammlerkalle
    sammlerkalle 100% (12545x)
    PRO free

    873 messaggi

    Germania

    As your income has gone down by that amount also it will be tax neutral I think if done correctly.

    My concern is that they muck this up by managing to charge buyers fees to sellers payment accounts (e.g. paypal or mangopay) and deducting them. As I see it, this would then make them fees paid by the seller to Delcampe and should be invoiced accordingly. We also get stung on the transaction fees in paypal.

    To work correctly this should be Delcampe Receives payment from Buyer. Delcampe Deducts Buyer Fees. Delcampe transfers remainder to seller. Invoices and all other paperwork should also make plain that buyers fees, import fees and associated admin fees are being charged by Delcampe (not the seller) and include all relavent information (VAT numbers, company numbers etc) to support that part of the transaction legally in the buyers jurisdiction.
    This is indeed a big problem.

    If the sales price is 3 euros and a 50 cent fee has to be paid, the 50 cent amount must be paid out directly by the buyer. If 3 euros end up in the seller's account (even if only briefly) and Delcampe then collects the 50 cent buyer's fee there, the tax office will ask me to declare 3 euros as income and not just 2.50 euros. And when we actually do that, we don't even get an invoice for 50 cents because the buyer supposedly paid that. The tax office then says that you can only declare the 50 cents as costs if we can provide proof. That would be playing with fire if we simply declared 2.50 euros to the tax office.

    And I'm afraid that all this drama about granting rights to Delcampe is only intended to collect all the fees from the seller's account. Unfortunately, as long as Delcampe continues to keep us so in the dark about everything, we have no choice but to assume the worst.
  • Account eliminato
    Account eliminato

    0 messaggi

    Svezia

    Buyers will compare total prices and spend (or not) accordingly.

    Moving a fee from sellers to the buyer makes no difference to this so the comparison is valid. You as a seller saying it is nothing to do with you any more is mssing the point as it will impact your sales.

    The Delcampe 'guarantee' will work similarly to the paypal one as far as I can see. You as a seller will end up paying for any compensation if the buyer is not satisfied. The main difference will be that Delcampe will be able to initiate this with paypal directly on the buyers behalf rather than the buyer having to approach paypal. I dont see any change for mangopay transactions coming along as they should already be able to do this (or the buyer may initiate a chargeback to resolve that is very expensive for mangopay to process).

    Your last point regarding Delcampe cashflow is likely what the new structure is about. Its a cash grab to cover their costs (or additional profits). It could work but the fee rises overall are so steep that they must be including a significant percentage of sellers and buyers moving elsewhere (or not buying/selling in the same volume) in their calculations.
    Le informazioni non sono più disponibili perché l'account di questo utente è stato eliminato (Regolamento RGPD).
  • sammlerkalle
    sammlerkalle 100% (12545x)
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    873 messaggi

    Germania

    Le informazioni non sono più disponibili perché l'account di questo utente è stato eliminato (Regolamento RGPD).
    I don't know what you're trying to make clear to me all this time. If I currently receive around 2.80 euros from a card that is offered for 3 euros and in the future only 2.65 euros, then that's the way it is. The amount will not increase even if you sugarcoat it. And there is no denying that my monthly fixed costs will increase from currently 4 euros per month to around 50 euros per month.
  • Account eliminato
    Account eliminato

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    Svezia

    I don't know what you're trying to make clear to me all this time. If I currently receive around 2.80 euros from a card that is offered for 3 euros and in the future only 2.65 euros, then that's the way it is. The amount will not increase even if you sugarcoat it. And there is no denying that my monthly fixed costs will increase from currently 4 euros per month to around 50 euros per month.
    Le informazioni non sono più disponibili perché l'account di questo utente è stato eliminato (Regolamento RGPD).
  • stevehillstamps
    stevehillstamps 100% (14520x)
    PRO standard

    223 messaggi

    Regno Unito

    Le informazioni non sono più disponibili perché l'account di questo utente è stato eliminato (Regolamento RGPD).
    Delcampe does not live in a vacuum though. Buyers compare across sites, so a site having large fees will drive buyers and sellers elsewhere.

    Delcampes new fee structure is a lot more like Vinted (as mentioned in the Q and A). It will work for certain items (those above a couple of EUR) but discourages multiple purchases (the fees are all on a per item basis rather than split between transaction and item costs which is where delcampe's actual costs fall).

    As a professional seller I weigh the advantages of selling here at present (ability to list below GBP0.99, low fees, low buyer issues/expectations, low sellthrough rate) to the other site (GBP 0.99 minimum price, high fees, more buyer issues, high sellthrough rate). Delcampe are tipping that scale, and unless they can increase the sales percentage as part of this fee increase I'll be moving more sales elsewhere.

    The guarantee has to involve seller penalties, if not an unscrupulous seller would just never post anything to the buyer and pocket the money with no comeback.
  • sammlerkalle
    sammlerkalle 100% (12545x)
    PRO free

    873 messaggi

    Germania

    Le informazioni non sono più disponibili perché l'account di questo utente è stato eliminato (Regolamento RGPD).
    Maybe I'll give you a calculator for Christmas. :)

    The numbers should only make it clear what is at stake. So here with exact numbers. In both cases, a card is offered and sold on the site for 3 euros.

    Now: Fees 15 cents (fixed) + 5% fee. That's a total of 30 cents. Buyer pays me 3 euros. I pay 30 cents to Delcampe. So 2.70 euros end up in my wallet.

    Future: Fees 30 cents (fixed) + 10% fee.
    That's a total of 60 cents. Buyer pays 3 euros to Delcampe/Mangopay. Delcampe/Mangopay keeps 60 cents and transfers the rest to me. So now only 2.40 euros end up in my wallet.

    And as I said, there are also the extremely increased monthly costs for me.
  • aok4
    aok4 100% (10960x)
    PRO standard

    498 messaggi

    Belgio

    Maybe I'll give you a calculator for Christmas. :)

    The numbers should only make it clear what is at stake. So here with exact numbers. In both cases, a card is offered and sold on the site for 3 euros.

    Now: Fees 15 cents (fixed) + 5% fee. That's a total of 30 cents. Buyer pays me 3 euros. I pay 30 cents to Delcampe. So 2.70 euros end up in my wallet.

    Future: Fees 30 cents (fixed) + 10% fee.
    That's a total of 60 cents. Buyer pays 3 euros to Delcampe/Mangopay. Delcampe/Mangopay keeps 60 cents and transfers the rest to me. So now only 2.40 euros end up in my wallet.

    And as I said, there are also the extremely increased monthly costs for me.
    No, in the future the buyer will pay 3,60 euros, from which 0,60 euros will be immediately taken by delcampe and 3 euros will end up in your account.
    (The buyer will also just see 3,60 euros as the price for the article)
  • sammlerkalle
    sammlerkalle 100% (12545x)
    PRO free

    873 messaggi

    Germania

    No, in the future the buyer will pay 3,60 euros, from which 0,60 euros will be immediately taken by delcampe and 3 euros will end up in your account.
    (The buyer will also just see 3,60 euros as the price for the article)
    If you want to compare different costs, you obviously have to use the same item prices. This is simple math.

    In addition, no buyer understands that an item suddenly becomes 20 percent more expensive just because Delcampe wants to earn more.

    And one more thing: If the buyer sees and buys an item for 3.60 euros and then wants a proper invoice from me, I can only issue him an invoice for 3 euros. I have nothing to do with the rest. Of course, the buyer is very happy and understanding.
  • stevehillstamps
    stevehillstamps 100% (14520x)
    PRO standard

    223 messaggi

    Regno Unito

    No, in the future the buyer will pay 3,60 euros, from which 0,60 euros will be immediately taken by delcampe and 3 euros will end up in your account.
    (The buyer will also just see 3,60 euros as the price for the article)
    sammlerkalle was showing the effect on the new fees from the buyer pespective if their price stays the same.

    A buyer sees an item for 3 EUR, currently this goes the seller who then pays the 30c in commission, leaving the seller with 2.70.

    Under the new system the buyer sees an item for 3 EUR, the buyer pays (0.3 item cost+ 0.245 FVF) and the seller receives 2.45 as they have reduced the price to take into account the fees to keep the buyer price the same.

    Buyer pays the same price but Delcampe pockets 83% more in fees.

    Realistically its going to be between your example and this one as a lot of sellers will reduce items to take into account the fees passing to the buyer, but not to the full extent of the fee increase.

    The seller could reduce the price of the listing to EUR2.70 to take into account this, leaving the buyer paying EUR3.27
  • Account eliminato
    Account eliminato

    0 messaggi

    Svezia

    Delcampe does not live in a vacuum though. Buyers compare across sites, so a site having large fees will drive buyers and sellers elsewhere.

    Delcampes new fee structure is a lot more like Vinted (as mentioned in the Q and A). It will work for certain items (those above a couple of EUR) but discourages multiple purchases (the fees are all on a per item basis rather than split between transaction and item costs which is where delcampe's actual costs fall).

    As a professional seller I weigh the advantages of selling here at present (ability to list below GBP0.99, low fees, low buyer issues/expectations, low sellthrough rate) to the other site (GBP 0.99 minimum price, high fees, more buyer issues, high sellthrough rate). Delcampe are tipping that scale, and unless they can increase the sales percentage as part of this fee increase I'll be moving more sales elsewhere.

    The guarantee has to involve seller penalties, if not an unscrupulous seller would just never post anything to the buyer and pocket the money with no comeback.
    Le informazioni non sono più disponibili perché l'account di questo utente è stato eliminato (Regolamento RGPD).
  • Account eliminato
    Account eliminato

    0 messaggi

    Svezia

    Maybe I'll give you a calculator for Christmas. :)

    The numbers should only make it clear what is at stake. So here with exact numbers. In both cases, a card is offered and sold on the site for 3 euros.

    Now: Fees 15 cents (fixed) + 5% fee. That's a total of 30 cents. Buyer pays me 3 euros. I pay 30 cents to Delcampe. So 2.70 euros end up in my wallet.

    Future: Fees 30 cents (fixed) + 10% fee.
    That's a total of 60 cents. Buyer pays 3 euros to Delcampe/Mangopay. Delcampe/Mangopay keeps 60 cents and transfers the rest to me. So now only 2.40 euros end up in my wallet.

    And as I said, there are also the extremely increased monthly costs for me.
    Le informazioni non sono più disponibili perché l'account di questo utente è stato eliminato (Regolamento RGPD).
  • Account eliminato
    Account eliminato

    0 messaggi

    Svezia

    If you want to compare different costs, you obviously have to use the same item prices. This is simple math.

    In addition, no buyer understands that an item suddenly becomes 20 percent more expensive just because Delcampe wants to earn more.

    And one more thing: If the buyer sees and buys an item for 3.60 euros and then wants a proper invoice from me, I can only issue him an invoice for 3 euros. I have nothing to do with the rest. Of course, the buyer is very happy and understanding.
    Le informazioni non sono più disponibili perché l'account di questo utente è stato eliminato (Regolamento RGPD).
  • grahamshanghai
    grahamshanghai 100% (584x)
    free

    39 messaggi

    Regno Unito

    sammlerkalle was showing the effect on the new fees from the buyer pespective if their price stays the same.

    A buyer sees an item for 3 EUR, currently this goes the seller who then pays the 30c in commission, leaving the seller with 2.70.

    Under the new system the buyer sees an item for 3 EUR, the buyer pays (0.3 item cost+ 0.245 FVF) and the seller receives 2.45 as they have reduced the price to take into account the fees to keep the buyer price the same.

    Buyer pays the same price but Delcampe pockets 83% more in fees.

    Realistically its going to be between your example and this one as a lot of sellers will reduce items to take into account the fees passing to the buyer, but not to the full extent of the fee increase.

    The seller could reduce the price of the listing to EUR2.70 to take into account this, leaving the buyer paying EUR3.27
    Interesting to read all this today, thanks ! The bottom line, to me, is that here we are, 20 days after the original Delcampe announcement, and folks on here are still trying to work what it all means. I have a feeling Delcampe has "shot themselves in the foot" (to coin an English phrase) very spectacularly with all this - which is a shame, especially on top of the raft of other changes in recent months. Sigh.
  • stevehillstamps
    stevehillstamps 100% (14520x)
    PRO standard

    223 messaggi

    Regno Unito

    I've just started my slimming down of my store to get under 10k items.

    I'm doing this by combining incomplete sets where I have listed stamps individually previously (to allow buyers to pick and choose the values they require) to a single listing of a part set of lower value stamps which I have to hand. Once a lot has been created I will consider where to list it, which may not be in Delcampes favour. If a buyer only needs a single value they are going to be forced into buying a more expensive selection.

    My other issue is going to be with low value sets. How can these be sold under the new structure? I guess I'll be listing a single example of each for a minimum value (as I do now) and allow buyers to purchase (with a huge fee markup) if they wish. It would be a shame if buyers cannot find a large number of cheaper sets on Delcampe. A hole in a collection is just as annoying be it expensive or cheap to fill. Trying to create year sets etc to sell these is just going to get too complex.

    As an example, I've just taken 12 single listings down into 4 lots. The bad news for Delcampe is that the 2 higher value lots were good enough to list on a larger site where they are likely to sell faster. Delcampe will get the 2 lower value lots. My old method would have given Delcampe GBP 2.08 in sales fees if they all sold as individual lots under the current fees. My new method gives Delcampe GBP 0.58 in buyer fees under the new fee structure if the 2 remaining lots sell (but delcampe has saved 10 listings of low value stamps).

    It will be interesting to see how this new listing scheme works and where Delcampe is as a site this time next year.
  • @miranda
    Amministratore
    @miranda

    516 messaggi

    Belgio

    Hi everyone,

    in a few weeks, Sebastian will make a live in English.
    The date still needs to be confirmed, but it will be in March.
    As soon as the date is set, we will send out a newsletter to invite you all to watch the live and be able to ask any question you still might have on the future of the website.
  • sammlerkalle
    sammlerkalle 100% (12545x)
    PRO free

    873 messaggi

    Germania

    Hi everyone,

    in a few weeks, Sebastian will make a live in English.
    The date still needs to be confirmed, but it will be in March.
    As soon as the date is set, we will send out a newsletter to invite you all to watch the live and be able to ask any question you still might have on the future of the website.
    And when will we also receive information in German?
    - Our service is simply silent and cannot be seen in the forum.
    - Yesterday's French newsletter referred to information about Mangopay and the future at Delcampe, but in the German newsletter there was no such information, only a reference to a collection
    - It has been impossible for us German merchants to authenticate ourselves with Mangopay for over a month. This also means that we cannot get our own money. Our service gives answers like "I don't know... Mangopay wants it that way... try this and that" (which of course doesn't work either). We are finally waiting for a reliable answer.
    - Alternatively, there is often no response from German service. It seems to be decided who gets an answer at all. I have two inquiries going on at the moment, one has been without a response for ten days, and the other I've been waiting around 20 days for.

    The email “We have a lot to do right now” has been coming automatically with every request for years, but it’s unfortunate that nothing has changed in such a long time.

    So when do you respond to the need for information in German? I don't speak French and English is not my native language. Although you are not responsible for Germany, it would be nice if you would present yourself to the management here. Unfortunately, this is not possible for us, as every request we make is automatically routed directly to German support, where it is lost in the same way as requests in the German forum. That's why I'm choosing this unusual path here.

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