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Warning For Sellers Who Accept PayPal

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    • Creato 31 lug 2010 a 16:35
    • #292348
    Hi James,
    I don't know about distant selling regulations in the US, but here in the UK it is the seller's responsibility to get the goods to the buyer and to be able to prove it.
    If you cannot prove that the buyer has received their item and they file against you, then you have to refund or send a replacement.
    Paypal simply upholds this principle.
    As most of my items are low value, I obtain a free certificate of posting from my post office. On a couple of occasions I have claimed against that when an item has gone astray and I am also prepared to "run the risk" of having to refund a buyer for non receipt.
    If I send out an item (number of items) of higher value, I will charge my buyer for the additional cost of registered delivery (see my t&c's). That way, if things go wrong, again I will have to refund my buyer, but I can file for a full refund from the Post Office.

    It is up to you to decide how much of a risk you want to take and set a limit where you require your buyer to pay for registered/recorded/signed for (whatever the correct term used in different countries) delivery.

    Luckily 99.9999% of buyers are honest people and when they get back to you and tell you that an item has not been received, they are actually telling you the truth and I strongly feel it is the seller's responsibility to put things right.

    I am afraid that I just laugh at sellers who state in their t&c's that they will not be held responsible for items lost in the post.

    I have been selling and buying online since 2004. In that time I have had about 10 items lost in the post as a seller (with about 10000 transactions across teh various sites I sell on) and 1 item gone lost in the post as a buyer. When I contacted my seller to let them know that I had not received my item, they went out of their way to source a replacement.

    If you think that this is a reason to stop accepting Paypal, think again. The majority of UK, US, Canadian buyers still prefer Paypal over any other payment method and in the long run it will be you who is losing out by not accepting it as a payment method.
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    Hi James,
    I don't know about distant selling regulations in the US, but here in the UK it is the seller's responsibility to get the goods to the buyer and to be able to prove it.
    If you cannot prove that the buyer has received their item and they file against you, then you have to refund or send a replacement.
    Paypal simply upholds this principle.
    As most of my items are low value, I obtain a free certificate of posting from my post office. On a couple of occasions I have claimed against that when an item has gone astray and I am also prepared to "run the risk" of having to refund a buyer for non receipt.
    If I send out an item (number of items) of higher value, I will charge my buyer for the additional cost of registered delivery (see my t&c's). That way, if things go wrong, again I will have to refund my buyer, but I can file for a full refund from the Post Office.

    It is up to you to decide how much of a risk you want to take and set a limit where you require your buyer to pay for registered/recorded/signed for (whatever the correct term used in different countries) delivery.

    Luckily 99.9999% of buyers are honest people and when they get back to you and tell you that an item has not been received, they are actually telling you the truth and I strongly feel it is the seller's responsibility to put things right.

    I am afraid that I just laugh at sellers who state in their t&c's that they will not be held responsible for items lost in the post.

    I have been selling and buying online since 2004. In that time I have had about 10 items lost in the post as a seller (with about 10000 transactions across teh various sites I sell on) and 1 item gone lost in the post as a buyer. When I contacted my seller to let them know that I had not received my item, they went out of their way to source a replacement.

    If you think that this is a reason to stop accepting Paypal, think again. The majority of UK, US, Canadian buyers still prefer Paypal over any other payment method and in the long run it will be you who is losing out by not accepting it as a payment method.
    • Creato 31 lug 2010 a 18:44
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    Hi James,
    I don't know about distant selling regulations in the US, but here in the UK it is the seller's responsibility to get the goods to the buyer and to be able to prove it.
    If you cannot prove that the buyer has received their item and they file against you, then you have to refund or send a replacement.
    Paypal simply upholds this principle.
    As most of my items are low value, I obtain a free certificate of posting from my post office. On a couple of occasions I have claimed against that when an item has gone astray and I am also prepared to "run the risk" of having to refund a buyer for non receipt.
    If I send out an item (number of items) of higher value, I will charge my buyer for the additional cost of registered delivery (see my t&c's). That way, if things go wrong, again I will have to refund my buyer, but I can file for a full refund from the Post Office.

    It is up to you to decide how much of a risk you want to take and set a limit where you require your buyer to pay for registered/recorded/signed for (whatever the correct term used in different countries) delivery.

    Luckily 99.9999% of buyers are honest people and when they get back to you and tell you that an item has not been received, they are actually telling you the truth and I strongly feel it is the seller's responsibility to put things right.

    I am afraid that I just laugh at sellers who state in their t&c's that they will not be held responsible for items lost in the post.

    I have been selling and buying online since 2004. In that time I have had about 10 items lost in the post as a seller (with about 10000 transactions across teh various sites I sell on) and 1 item gone lost in the post as a buyer. When I contacted my seller to let them know that I had not received my item, they went out of their way to source a replacement.

    If you think that this is a reason to stop accepting Paypal, think again. The majority of UK, US, Canadian buyers still prefer Paypal over any other payment method and in the long run it will be you who is losing out by not accepting it as a payment method.
    • Creato 31 lug 2010 a 18:44
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    • Creato 31 lug 2010 a 16:35
    • #292348
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    • Creato 31 lug 2010 a 22:21
    • #292358
    The UK Certificate of Posting is free, but this does not get you Paypal protection as a seller. In order to get Paypal protection you have to have an online trackable proof of posting, for UK sellers recorded delivery, special delivery or international signed for/airsure. Also the CoP is only honoured by RM for inland transaction, not for international mailings, although I have received "good will" refunds from them on 2 occasions; one item to the US and one to France.

    It's no good giving OP a link to the RM website, as he/she is in the US.


    As far as my original reply is concerned: this is not a new feature with Paypal - since the beginning of 2008 I have been selling on sites other then Ebay, and the "proof of delivery" was certainly already in place then. The only thing Paypal will not deal with for non Ebay sales is SNAD (significantly not as described).
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    The UK Certificate of Posting is free, but this does not get you Paypal protection as a seller. In order to get Paypal protection you have to have an online trackable proof of posting, for UK sellers recorded delivery, special delivery or international signed for/airsure. Also the CoP is only honoured by RM for inland transaction, not for international mailings, although I have received "good will" refunds from them on 2 occasions; one item to the US and one to France.

    It's no good giving OP a link to the RM website, as he/she is in the US.


    As far as my original reply is concerned: this is not a new feature with Paypal - since the beginning of 2008 I have been selling on sites other then Ebay, and the "proof of delivery" was certainly already in place then. The only thing Paypal will not deal with for non Ebay sales is SNAD (significantly not as described).
    • Creato 1 ago 2010 a 17:47
    • #292442
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    Hi James,
    I don't know about distant selling regulations in the US, but here in the UK it is the seller's responsibility to get the goods to the buyer and to be able to prove it.
    If you cannot prove that the buyer has received their item and they file against you, then you have to refund or send a replacement.
    Paypal simply upholds this principle.
    As most of my items are low value, I obtain a free certificate of posting from my post office. On a couple of occasions I have claimed against that when an item has gone astray and I am also prepared to "run the risk" of having to refund a buyer for non receipt.
    If I send out an item (number of items) of higher value, I will charge my buyer for the additional cost of registered delivery (see my t&c's). That way, if things go wrong, again I will have to refund my buyer, but I can file for a full refund from the Post Office.

    It is up to you to decide how much of a risk you want to take and set a limit where you require your buyer to pay for registered/recorded/signed for (whatever the correct term used in different countries) delivery.

    Luckily 99.9999% of buyers are honest people and when they get back to you and tell you that an item has not been received, they are actually telling you the truth and I strongly feel it is the seller's responsibility to put things right.

    I am afraid that I just laugh at sellers who state in their t&c's that they will not be held responsible for items lost in the post.

    I have been selling and buying online since 2004. In that time I have had about 10 items lost in the post as a seller (with about 10000 transactions across teh various sites I sell on) and 1 item gone lost in the post as a buyer. When I contacted my seller to let them know that I had not received my item, they went out of their way to source a replacement.

    If you think that this is a reason to stop accepting Paypal, think again. The majority of UK, US, Canadian buyers still prefer Paypal over any other payment method and in the long run it will be you who is losing out by not accepting it as a payment method.
    • Creato 31 lug 2010 a 18:44
    • #292354
    Le informazioni non sono più disponibili perché l'account di questo utente è stato eliminato (Regolamento RGPD).
  • moonstone
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    Regno Unito

    The UK Certificate of Posting is free, but this does not get you Paypal protection as a seller. In order to get Paypal protection you have to have an online trackable proof of posting, for UK sellers recorded delivery, special delivery or international signed for/airsure. Also the CoP is only honoured by RM for inland transaction, not for international mailings, although I have received "good will" refunds from them on 2 occasions; one item to the US and one to France.

    It's no good giving OP a link to the RM website, as he/she is in the US.


    As far as my original reply is concerned: this is not a new feature with Paypal - since the beginning of 2008 I have been selling on sites other then Ebay, and the "proof of delivery" was certainly already in place then. The only thing Paypal will not deal with for non Ebay sales is SNAD (significantly not as described).
    • Creato 1 ago 2010 a 17:47
    • #292442
    This was my understanding also - unless the item was trackable then Paypal didn't cover it.

    Personally, as a lot of items I sell are of low individual value, I often don't bother with a certificate of posting - couldn't see the point as my understanding was that it was no security if an item went astray + as my figures for lost items is about the same as mentioned on this thread, there was no point.

    HOWEVER, a recent visit to my friendly sub post office has made me think again.
    I had to post a number of larger items which I had to get weighed (my normal output of stamps generally go for basic rate postage to whatever country) and the lady asked me if these were 'eBay' items. I said they were similar and she said that they had been instructed to now give certs of posting for all 'eBay' items. I asked if she knew why and she said she wasn't entirely sure but thought it was something to do with insurance!

    Has anyone else heard anything about this? - is this something just ebay are doing or is it, as I suspect, more to do with Paypal, in which case are certs now going to be sufficient??:question:
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    This was my understanding also - unless the item was trackable then Paypal didn't cover it.

    Personally, as a lot of items I sell are of low individual value, I often don't bother with a certificate of posting - couldn't see the point as my understanding was that it was no security if an item went astray + as my figures for lost items is about the same as mentioned on this thread, there was no point.

    HOWEVER, a recent visit to my friendly sub post office has made me think again.
    I had to post a number of larger items which I had to get weighed (my normal output of stamps generally go for basic rate postage to whatever country) and the lady asked me if these were 'eBay' items. I said they were similar and she said that they had been instructed to now give certs of posting for all 'eBay' items. I asked if she knew why and she said she wasn't entirely sure but thought it was something to do with insurance!

    Has anyone else heard anything about this? - is this something just ebay are doing or is it, as I suspect, more to do with Paypal, in which case are certs now going to be sufficient??:question:
    • Creato 2 ago 2010 a 10:51
    • #292515
    That's the first I've heard of it.
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    This was my understanding also - unless the item was trackable then Paypal didn't cover it.

    Personally, as a lot of items I sell are of low individual value, I often don't bother with a certificate of posting - couldn't see the point as my understanding was that it was no security if an item went astray + as my figures for lost items is about the same as mentioned on this thread, there was no point.

    HOWEVER, a recent visit to my friendly sub post office has made me think again.
    I had to post a number of larger items which I had to get weighed (my normal output of stamps generally go for basic rate postage to whatever country) and the lady asked me if these were 'eBay' items. I said they were similar and she said that they had been instructed to now give certs of posting for all 'eBay' items. I asked if she knew why and she said she wasn't entirely sure but thought it was something to do with insurance!

    Has anyone else heard anything about this? - is this something just ebay are doing or is it, as I suspect, more to do with Paypal, in which case are certs now going to be sufficient??:question:
    • Creato 2 ago 2010 a 10:51
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  • moonstone
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    • Creato 2 ago 2010 a 12:19
    • #292527
    I would generally agree with you, however, on a recent occasion when a couple of lots I sold went 'walkabout' en route to the USA (these were tracked by International Signed For), I got a claim form from Royal Mail and noticed that they now have specific instructions for eBay/paypal items including having to provide Royal Mail with copies of the eBay sale listing and Paypal payment record.

    Just wondered if this had been extended further? - no doubt eBay, Delcampe and the other internet sales sites are now big business for Royal Mail and they don't want to lose the custom to another provider.

    Sam
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    I would generally agree with you, however, on a recent occasion when a couple of lots I sold went 'walkabout' en route to the USA (these were tracked by International Signed For), I got a claim form from Royal Mail and noticed that they now have specific instructions for eBay/paypal items including having to provide Royal Mail with copies of the eBay sale listing and Paypal payment record.

    Just wondered if this had been extended further? - no doubt eBay, Delcampe and the other internet sales sites are now big business for Royal Mail and they don't want to lose the custom to another provider.

    Sam
    • Creato 2 ago 2010 a 12:32
    • #292529
    The last claim I made for an international item that had gone walkies, was at the end of 2007 and providing Ebay and Paypal documentation was already a requirement then.
    Oh, and the reason why I remember when it was, is because I was/am convinced that I was scammed by my buyer.
  • moonstone
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    The last claim I made for an international item that had gone walkies, was at the end of 2007 and providing Ebay and Paypal documentation was already a requirement then.
    Oh, and the reason why I remember when it was, is because I was/am convinced that I was scammed by my buyer.
    • Creato 2 ago 2010 a 12:40
    • #292531
    Thankfully on this occasion I'm certain I wasn't scammed as the buyer was a large scale buyer who had also bought from me before with no problem and for a higher amount - stil haven't received any compensation from Royal Mail, though, after 4+months!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
    Sam
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    I would generally agree with you, however, on a recent occasion when a couple of lots I sold went 'walkabout' en route to the USA (these were tracked by International Signed For), I got a claim form from Royal Mail and noticed that they now have specific instructions for eBay/paypal items including having to provide Royal Mail with copies of the eBay sale listing and Paypal payment record.

    Just wondered if this had been extended further? - no doubt eBay, Delcampe and the other internet sales sites are now big business for Royal Mail and they don't want to lose the custom to another provider.

    Sam
    • Creato 2 ago 2010 a 12:32
    • #292529
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    Thankfully on this occasion I'm certain I wasn't scammed as the buyer was a large scale buyer who had also bought from me before with no problem and for a higher amount - stil haven't received any compensation from Royal Mail, though, after 4+months!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
    Sam
    • Creato 2 ago 2010 a 13:04
    • #292532
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  • moonstone
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    • Creato 2 ago 2010 a 14:03
    • #292537
    In this case, I did, because, as I said, he had bought before, had 100% feedback and everything checked out OK - the tracking showed the item arrived with US Customs and then disppeared.

    Not so sure I would do in all instances though I agree with your buyer that it's not his fault, butit certainly isn't yours either. Communication rules all - it's most important to tell your buyer what's going on + if you use international tracking give them the tracking number then they can check that it is actually in the system and that you're not a scammer!!!

    I've found this generally solves most problems, but of course they want their money back ( and so do i from RM!!!)
    Sam
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    In this case, I did, because, as I said, he had bought before, had 100% feedback and everything checked out OK - the tracking showed the item arrived with US Customs and then disppeared.

    Not so sure I would do in all instances though I agree with your buyer that it's not his fault, butit certainly isn't yours either. Communication rules all - it's most important to tell your buyer what's going on + if you use international tracking give them the tracking number then they can check that it is actually in the system and that you're not a scammer!!!

    I've found this generally solves most problems, but of course they want their money back ( and so do i from RM!!!)
    Sam
    • Creato 2 ago 2010 a 14:10
    • #292538
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    • Creato 31 lug 2010 a 16:35
    • #292348
    I too scan my outgoing mail to buyers - if not for proof of mailing - then for peace of mind on my part.

    I would not go through the motions to create a mailing just to scam a potential buyer. Why waste the envelope, postage and time to create such a beast?

    If caught / found out about doing this, your reputation will become mud quite quickly - not only with the auction house, but with any potential customer.

    Sometimes things happen, but the amount of lost mail is probably a lot less than what people mumble about.

    Further, the amount of your refund was so low that I would be embarrassed to ask for it.

    Keep the faith - most people out there seem honest enough. It's the few rotten eggs that spoil it for the rest of us.

    Tracy
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    I too scan my outgoing mail to buyers - if not for proof of mailing - then for peace of mind on my part.

    I would not go through the motions to create a mailing just to scam a potential buyer. Why waste the envelope, postage and time to create such a beast?

    If caught / found out about doing this, your reputation will become mud quite quickly - not only with the auction house, but with any potential customer.

    Sometimes things happen, but the amount of lost mail is probably a lot less than what people mumble about.

    Further, the amount of your refund was so low that I would be embarrassed to ask for it.

    Keep the faith - most people out there seem honest enough. It's the few rotten eggs that spoil it for the rest of us.

    Tracy
    • Creato 8 ago 2010 a 20:17
    • #293110
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    • Creato 8 ago 2010 a 21:31
    • #293113
    Well - Geez - I didn't make any decision for anyone else.

    The lesser point is simple - the $, Euro or dinero amount was negligible. Period.

    The greater point was about PayPal and some "practices" that they do.

    I was speaking for myself, not anyone else.

    Tracy
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    Well - Geez - I didn't make any decision for anyone else.

    The lesser point is simple - the $, Euro or dinero amount was negligible. Period.

    The greater point was about PayPal and some "practices" that they do.

    I was speaking for myself, not anyone else.

    Tracy
    • Creato 9 ago 2010 a 00:11
    • #293119
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    • Creato 9 ago 2010 a 04:51
    • #293135
    I can appreciate you splitting hairs here. I like flyspeck collecting as well. :D

    I'm not as daft as I may appear, my delcampe associate. I can comprehend and appreciate the global village and the permutations therein.

    But taking the low road in a discussion, instead of taking the higher road, is well, according to some, kind of lame?

    Kind of like pulling someone up for speling erors.

    Just because you live in Europe doesn't mean the rest of the world does. The same goes for anywhere else. Even us nasty US of A Americans.

    Just my unworthy .02 USD ...
  • mainlypostcards
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    I can appreciate you splitting hairs here. I like flyspeck collecting as well. :D

    I'm not as daft as I may appear, my delcampe associate. I can comprehend and appreciate the global village and the permutations therein.

    But taking the low road in a discussion, instead of taking the higher road, is well, according to some, kind of lame?

    Kind of like pulling someone up for speling erors.

    Just because you live in Europe doesn't mean the rest of the world does. The same goes for anywhere else. Even us nasty US of A Americans.

    Just my unworthy .02 USD ...
    • Creato 9 ago 2010 a 15:24
    • #293190
    2 cents well spent Tracey, but............
    you should have double checked your speling :grimace: before replying to delboy; after all he uses a spell checker.

    Seeking argument and pulling people down is just a very easy, cowardly thing to do when you're hiding behind a computer screen and a username.
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    I can appreciate you splitting hairs here. I like flyspeck collecting as well. :D

    I'm not as daft as I may appear, my delcampe associate. I can comprehend and appreciate the global village and the permutations therein.

    But taking the low road in a discussion, instead of taking the higher road, is well, according to some, kind of lame?

    Kind of like pulling someone up for speling erors.

    Just because you live in Europe doesn't mean the rest of the world does. The same goes for anywhere else. Even us nasty US of A Americans.

    Just my unworthy .02 USD ...
    • Creato 9 ago 2010 a 15:24
    • #293190
    Le informazioni non sono più disponibili perché l'account di questo utente è stato eliminato (Regolamento RGPD).

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