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Paypal payments in the new fees system

  • Cuenta eliminada
    Cuenta eliminada

    0 mensajes

    Suecia

    You are correct in saying that the partner fees are entering the seller's account but they correspond to our platform fees. They are then deducted from your payment as they are transferred to Delcampe.

    As explained to you the other day: on PayPal, sellers pay all the transaction fees (including those partner fees/platform fees) because PayPal cannot technically split partner fees between buyers and sellers. This is not Delcampe's decision: it's a PayPal technical constraint. There's nothing that will be done on our side.
    Los datos ya no están disponibles porque la cuenta de este usuario ha sido eliminada (Reglamento RGPD)
  • stevehillstamps
    stevehillstamps 100% (14520x)
    PRO standard

    223 mensajes

    Reino Unido

    Los datos ya no están disponibles porque la cuenta de este usuario ha sido eliminada (Reglamento RGPD)
    Exactly

    But as support have said 'There's nothing that will be done on our side.' which means that the only means of resolving this is to make an external complaint once they are in breach of the law.

    This could be to dispute the deduction in paypal (due to the system being used to recover costs they have not advised would be debited from my account and the refusal to provide an invoice), and/or the tax authorities (due to an invoice not being issued in the correct timeframe - 30 days in the UK case - and that VAT may be being paid by Delcampe in the incorrect juristiction).
  • sammlerkalle
    sammlerkalle 100% (12545x)
    PRO free

    873 mensajes

    Alemania

    Los datos ya no están disponibles porque la cuenta de este usuario ha sido eliminada (Reglamento RGPD)
    This becomes exciting when the buyer also wants an invoice for the purchase fees because, for example, he is buying for an archive. He is then entitled to it, just as we are currently entitled to it to us sellers. This shows that the whole thing is a design error. And Delcampe made this design error, not PayPal.
  • Cuenta eliminada
    Cuenta eliminada

    0 mensajes

    Suecia

    Exactly

    But as support have said 'There's nothing that will be done on our side.' which means that the only means of resolving this is to make an external complaint once they are in breach of the law.

    This could be to dispute the deduction in paypal (due to the system being used to recover costs they have not advised would be debited from my account and the refusal to provide an invoice), and/or the tax authorities (due to an invoice not being issued in the correct timeframe - 30 days in the UK case - and that VAT may be being paid by Delcampe in the incorrect juristiction).
    Los datos ya no están disponibles porque la cuenta de este usuario ha sido eliminada (Reglamento RGPD)
  • @miranda
    Administrador
    @miranda

    516 mensajes

    Bélgica

    Cecilia will get back to you next week regarding your latest questions (they were forwarded to our management).

    In meantime, I wish you all an excellent weekend!

    Take care,
    Miranda
  • stevehillstamps
    stevehillstamps 100% (14520x)
    PRO standard

    223 mensajes

    Reino Unido

    Cecilia will get back to you next week regarding your latest questions (they were forwarded to our management).

    In meantime, I wish you all an excellent weekend!

    Take care,
    Miranda
    Many thanks. Hope you have a good weekend also!
  • 4margins
    4margins 100% (15966x)

    132 mensajes

    Reino Unido

    Having read through this, and other threads, I can only say that I am glad I am not a seller on here. For professional sellers all these accounting aberrations read like a nightmare.

    As a buyer I nearly always use Mangopay, unless sellers specifically state otherwise, so a simple solution to much of these problems would be for sellers to remove PayPal as a payment option. Do you really need it?

    For customers, whom I presume are adults, it is just as easy to link a credit/debit card with Mangopay as it is with PayPal, and for those outside the Mangopay catchment area you could specify IBAN Transfers. If you are a trusted seller with a good feedback rating, then there is no need for buyers to insist on the additional protections given by PayPal.
  • Cuenta eliminada
    Cuenta eliminada

    0 mensajes

    Suecia

    Having read through this, and other threads, I can only say that I am glad I am not a seller on here. For professional sellers all these accounting aberrations read like a nightmare.

    As a buyer I nearly always use Mangopay, unless sellers specifically state otherwise, so a simple solution to much of these problems would be for sellers to remove PayPal as a payment option. Do you really need it?

    For customers, whom I presume are adults, it is just as easy to link a credit/debit card with Mangopay as it is with PayPal, and for those outside the Mangopay catchment area you could specify IBAN Transfers. If you are a trusted seller with a good feedback rating, then there is no need for buyers to insist on the additional protections given by PayPal.
    Los datos ya no están disponibles porque la cuenta de este usuario ha sido eliminada (Reglamento RGPD)
  • 4margins
    4margins 100% (15966x)

    132 mensajes

    Reino Unido

    Los datos ya no están disponibles porque la cuenta de este usuario ha sido eliminada (Reglamento RGPD)
    That's not strictly true what you say about IBAN Transfers. These may be outlawed as direct payments between buyer and seller via the interface; but whenever I proceed to pay someone I always get the option of making an IBAN Transfer into a Mangopay account which is then forwarded to the seller. This is marked as being a "slow method" but is a fudge that Delcampe have initiated presumably to deal with those buyers who are outside the normal catchment area for Mangopay.
  • Cuenta eliminada
    Cuenta eliminada

    0 mensajes

    Suecia

    That's not strictly true what you say about IBAN Transfers. These may be outlawed as direct payments between buyer and seller via the interface; but whenever I proceed to pay someone I always get the option of making an IBAN Transfer into a Mangopay account which is then forwarded to the seller. This is marked as being a "slow method" but is a fudge that Delcampe have initiated presumably to deal with those buyers who are outside the normal catchment area for Mangopay.
    Los datos ya no están disponibles porque la cuenta de este usuario ha sido eliminada (Reglamento RGPD)
  • stevehillstamps
    stevehillstamps 100% (14520x)
    PRO standard

    223 mensajes

    Reino Unido

    Cecilia will get back to you next week regarding your latest questions (they were forwarded to our management).

    In meantime, I wish you all an excellent weekend!

    Take care,
    Miranda
    Any update on these questions?
  • sammlerkalle
    sammlerkalle 100% (12545x)
    PRO free

    873 mensajes

    Alemania

    Cecilia will get back to you next week regarding your latest questions (they were forwarded to our management).

    In meantime, I wish you all an excellent weekend!

    Take care,
    Miranda
    I'm waiting, too. It's May and I want to do the accounting for April, but that's not possible because Delcampe refuses to provide the necessary documents. "The question has been forwarded" is a sentence that we hear quite often at Delcampe - and then we usually don't hear anything anymore. But this Delcampe system won't work here. We need this bill very urgently. It is your idea to collect the fees like this, then of course you have to do everything related to it.
  • @elise
    Administrador
    @elise

    784 mensajes

    Bélgica

    Hello,

    The questions have forwarded and we're still waiting for more information.

    We will get back to you as soon as possible.

    Best regards,

    The Delcampe Team
  • stevehillstamps
    stevehillstamps 100% (14520x)
    PRO standard

    223 mensajes

    Reino Unido

    Hello,

    The questions have forwarded and we're still waiting for more information.

    We will get back to you as soon as possible.

    Best regards,

    The Delcampe Team
    Any progress on these, its now been two weeks waiting for a responce.
  • @miranda
    Administrador
    @miranda

    516 mensajes

    Bélgica

    Thank you for the confirmation that you have noticed the technical issue.

    What juristiction is VAT is being paid on the 'buyer fees' (buyer, seller or Delcampe).

    Can you confirm if the same technical issue occurs in Mangopay, or that buyer fees do not enter the sellers account at all?
    Hi Steve,

    Regarding what juristiction is VAT is being paid on the 'buyer fees' (buyer, seller or Delcampe), it's the buyer's. When it comes to the buyer's fee, we declare VAT in the buyer's country.

    Contrary to PayPal, buyer fees do not enter the seller's account at all with Mangopay.
  • @miranda
    Administrador
    @miranda

    516 mensajes

    Bélgica

    And because the entire amount enters our account, we also have to declare the entire amount to the tax office. We receive an invoice for each reduction, which we can then claim. No invoice, no tax reduction. We receive a statement from PayPal for the PayPal fees. That's good. But we also need an invoice for the Delcampe fees when we declare them to the tax office. And since the money goes to you, we also need the invoice from you. If we make 1000 PayPal payments with 1 euro Delcampe fees each, we would otherwise have to pay taxes for the 1000 euros Delcampe fees.
    Hi "sammlerkalle",

    We cannot provide you with an invoice for this because you no longer have commission fees.

    Currently you have PayPal fees on the total paid by the buyer and this is what you'll have to declare.
    PayPal fees fall onto the seller's account, whereas platform fees fall onto the buyer with their own VAT.

    For instance:

    Item put on sale at €100
    Price seen by the buyer €110.30
    The seller will have PayPal fees on €110.30, so approximately €4.10 (0.35€+3.4%) and €100 seller's revenue.

    Delcampe declares VAT in the buyer's country on our platform fees (€10.30), and we are taxed on those €10.30 - VAT
  • Cuenta eliminada
    Cuenta eliminada

    0 mensajes

    Suecia

    Los datos ya no están disponibles porque la cuenta de este usuario ha sido eliminada (Reglamento RGPD)
  • Cuenta eliminada
    Cuenta eliminada

    0 mensajes

    Suecia

    Los datos ya no están disponibles porque la cuenta de este usuario ha sido eliminada (Reglamento RGPD)
    Los datos ya no están disponibles porque la cuenta de este usuario ha sido eliminada (Reglamento RGPD)
  • @miranda
    Administrador
    @miranda

    516 mensajes

    Bélgica

    We heard your feedback and we understand that the way the PayPal invoices are presented are different from before.

    Accounting wise a difference needs to be made between your income (what you receive from your buyers) and the costs you incur (PayPal fees) :
    - the Delcampe invoice we present to you in your Sales page allows you to see all of your income. The new version also clearly mentions the exact amount the seller has received and should thus pose no problem fiscally
    - the PayPal invoice on the other hand allows you to deduct your costs

    So for example, for an item put on sale at €100 and for which the buyer paid €110.30, the seller will have PayPal fees on €110.30, so approximately €4.10 (0.35€+3.4%) and €100 seller's revenue.
    Delcampe declares VAT in the buyer's country on our platform fees (€10.30), and we are taxed on those €10.30 – VAT

    We understand that this way of proceeding is different than before and may require some changes in the way you operate.
    But they should allow you to put in order your accounting.
    No further changes to this interface are planned.

    If you have any further question on how to proceed with your taxes, we encourage you to contact an accountant.

    Thank you for your understanding.

    Have a lovely day!
  • stevehillstamps
    stevehillstamps 100% (14520x)
    PRO standard

    223 mensajes

    Reino Unido

    Hi Steve,

    Regarding what juristiction is VAT is being paid on the 'buyer fees' (buyer, seller or Delcampe), it's the buyer's. When it comes to the buyer's fee, we declare VAT in the buyer's country.

    Contrary to PayPal, buyer fees do not enter the seller's account at all with Mangopay.
    Thanks for getting back to me, I'll take this forward with my accountant and get back if they have any further queries.
  • mjocovers
    mjocovers 100% (30387x)
    standard

    466 mensajes

    Reino Unido

    Hi "sammlerkalle",

    We cannot provide you with an invoice for this because you no longer have commission fees.

    Currently you have PayPal fees on the total paid by the buyer and this is what you'll have to declare.
    PayPal fees fall onto the seller's account, whereas platform fees fall onto the buyer with their own VAT.

    For instance:

    Item put on sale at €100
    Price seen by the buyer €110.30
    The seller will have PayPal fees on €110.30, so approximately €4.10 (0.35€+3.4%) and €100 seller's revenue.

    Delcampe declares VAT in the buyer's country on our platform fees (€10.30), and we are taxed on those €10.30 - VAT
    But you previously confirmed that platform fees fall onto the seller not the buyer. It is the sellers who pay the partner fees.
    board
  • Cuenta eliminada
    Cuenta eliminada

    0 mensajes

    Suecia

    But you previously confirmed that platform fees fall onto the seller not the buyer. It is the sellers who pay the partner fees.
    Los datos ya no están disponibles porque la cuenta de este usuario ha sido eliminada (Reglamento RGPD)
  • mjocovers
    mjocovers 100% (30387x)
    standard

    466 mensajes

    Reino Unido

    Los datos ya no están disponibles porque la cuenta de este usuario ha sido eliminada (Reglamento RGPD)
    It's disheartening.
    After many years looking after my late mum, and my own ill health, I was finally planning on putting much more on Delcampe this year. I have many 1000's of covers that I have had for decades that I want to clear out, to make space, and have a change of environment in my house. (important as due to disability I spend most of the time at home) . It's not only business sellers who could have potential taxation issues without proper sales paperwork.

    I am seriously considering trying out other sites instead, before I waste too much time and energy listing on Delcampe. It's a shame. In the old days Delcampe used to be uncomplicated and fun. Now it isn't.
  • Cuenta eliminada
    Cuenta eliminada

    0 mensajes

    Suecia

    It's disheartening.
    After many years looking after my late mum, and my own ill health, I was finally planning on putting much more on Delcampe this year. I have many 1000's of covers that I have had for decades that I want to clear out, to make space, and have a change of environment in my house. (important as due to disability I spend most of the time at home) . It's not only business sellers who could have potential taxation issues without proper sales paperwork.

    I am seriously considering trying out other sites instead, before I waste too much time and energy listing on Delcampe. It's a shame. In the old days Delcampe used to be uncomplicated and fun. Now it isn't.
    Los datos ya no están disponibles porque la cuenta de este usuario ha sido eliminada (Reglamento RGPD)
  • mjocovers
    mjocovers 100% (30387x)
    standard

    466 mensajes

    Reino Unido

    We heard your feedback and we understand that the way the PayPal invoices are presented are different from before.

    Accounting wise a difference needs to be made between your income (what you receive from your buyers) and the costs you incur (PayPal fees) :
    - the Delcampe invoice we present to you in your Sales page allows you to see all of your income. The new version also clearly mentions the exact amount the seller has received and should thus pose no problem fiscally
    - the PayPal invoice on the other hand allows you to deduct your costs

    So for example, for an item put on sale at €100 and for which the buyer paid €110.30, the seller will have PayPal fees on €110.30, so approximately €4.10 (0.35€+3.4%) and €100 seller's revenue.
    Delcampe declares VAT in the buyer's country on our platform fees (€10.30), and we are taxed on those €10.30 – VAT

    We understand that this way of proceeding is different than before and may require some changes in the way you operate.
    But they should allow you to put in order your accounting.
    No further changes to this interface are planned.

    If you have any further question on how to proceed with your taxes, we encourage you to contact an accountant.

    Thank you for your understanding.

    Have a lovely day!
    Why does it say on the invoice that the purchase amount I, the seller, charge, includes VAT?
    This is not true. I do not charge VAT. Anyone looking at this would think I am charging VAT, and there are serious legal and tax implications for this!
    board

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