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what does ** means ?

  • mmscan
    mmscan 100% (25932x)
    standard

    148 messaggi

    Cina

    I won the lot "CHINA. INTERESSANTES Lot **. MK" .

    It should be ** condition according to item title, but I found they were Hinged when they arrived. I have uploaded 3 images in this post,so that you can see their condition.

    I contacted seller, but failed to resolve this problem..


    Thank you very much if you can post your view : are they as seller described or not?


    board board board
  • mmscan
    mmscan 100% (25932x)
    standard

    148 messaggi

    Cina

    I won the lot "CHINA. INTERESSANTES Lot **. MK" .

    It should be ** condition according to item title, but I found they were Hinged when they arrived. I have uploaded 3 images in this post,so that you can see their condition.

    I contacted seller, but failed to resolve this problem..


    Thank you very much if you can post your view : are they as seller described or not?


    • Creato 27 feb 2014 a 03:24
    • #489621

    Here are more images to check their condition.

    Thank you very much for your view !
    board board board
  • martin52
    martin52 100% (20210x)
    standard

    1783 messaggi

    Svizzera


    Here are more images to check their condition.

    Thank you very much for your view !
    • Creato 27 feb 2014 a 03:28
    • #489622
    In the German-speaking Regions ** means MNH (mint unmounted), while * stands for MLH or MH and (*) for "no gum"

    In case your stamps were originally issued WITH gum (some Chinese are issued without gum) but they are MLH or MH, then the seller is obliged to refund or replace.
    Please do not Forget about the language - maybe he has not understood your complaint? In case I can assist as translator.
    Anyway, if hopefully paid by PayPal, the case should be easy to solve.
    Good luck
  • mmscan
    mmscan 100% (25932x)
    standard

    148 messaggi

    Cina

    In the German-speaking Regions ** means MNH (mint unmounted), while * stands for MLH or MH and (*) for "no gum"

    In case your stamps were originally issued WITH gum (some Chinese are issued without gum) but they are MLH or MH, then the seller is obliged to refund or replace.
    Please do not Forget about the language - maybe he has not understood your complaint? In case I can assist as translator.
    Anyway, if hopefully paid by PayPal, the case should be easy to solve.
    Good luck
    • Creato 27 feb 2014 a 07:42
    • #489666
    Thank you very much!
    So, these stamps are not as described ?
  • moonstone
    moonstone 100% (55534x)
    advanced

    1039 messaggi

    Regno Unito

    Thank you very much!
    So, these stamps are not as described ?
    • Creato 27 feb 2014 a 08:48
    • #489673
    No, definitely not.

    In UK also, the same meaning is taken as in Germany, ** would mean unmounted mint / mint never hinged (postfrisch in German)
  • mmscan
    mmscan 100% (25932x)
    standard

    148 messaggi

    Cina

    No, definitely not.

    In UK also, the same meaning is taken as in Germany, ** would mean unmounted mint / mint never hinged (postfrisch in German)
    • Creato 27 feb 2014 a 08:50
    • #489674
    Thanks very much!


    But paypal said "Since you claim the item are not as describes, we require a supporting document from an unbiased third party which expert on the item you purchase. The document must provide further description on how the item is not as describe and how they unidentified it."


    The * condition is there,but paypal want someone to prove it. like to prove 1+1=2. Not easy:(
    I don't know how to offer such document to paypal.
  • martin52
    martin52 100% (20210x)
    standard

    1783 messaggi

    Svizzera

    Thanks very much!


    But paypal said "Since you claim the item are not as describes, we require a supporting document from an unbiased third party which expert on the item you purchase. The document must provide further description on how the item is not as describe and how they unidentified it."


    The * condition is there,but paypal want someone to prove it. like to prove 1+1=2. Not easy:(
    I don't know how to offer such document to paypal.
    • Creato 27 feb 2014 a 09:02
    • #489675
    First of all you have to check, if your stamps are identical to those shown in the sellers offer. This is also possible on mint stamps, in Details of centering and Perforation. Else the seller can say, his stamps have been replaced by you.
    After this is done, I would contact someone in your local stamp collecting Club, or maybe an employee from a Philatelic Bureau (if you happen to know?) and ask him to state in a few lines, that the stamps are "hinged". Send that "document" to PayPal and wait any results
  • mmscan
    mmscan 100% (25932x)
    standard

    148 messaggi

    Cina

    First of all you have to check, if your stamps are identical to those shown in the sellers offer. This is also possible on mint stamps, in Details of centering and Perforation. Else the seller can say, his stamps have been replaced by you.
    After this is done, I would contact someone in your local stamp collecting Club, or maybe an employee from a Philatelic Bureau (if you happen to know?) and ask him to state in a few lines, that the stamps are "hinged". Send that "document" to PayPal and wait any results
    • Creato 27 feb 2014 a 09:13
    • #489678
    Please check perforation .

    First line,all top perforation face the left,and $5(last one) have both short perforation on top and bottom.
    Second line, $1.4(1st)'s perforation is very easy to check, $2's top right cover has a long perforation.

    The single stamp($1) in right side, check a long perforation on top, and one short perforation in left.

    All are the same,and at the same position.

    They are the original stamps listed by seller.




    Our local stamp collecting Club's member can read Chinese only, almost all are old collectors, more than 55 years, they can not read the seller's title. So they don't know what's the condition said by the seller. In this situation, how can they say as or not as described? The same situation for Philatelic Bureau.



    Delcampe member know english & German,and I show images here. Hope more members can help to check: If they are as described , or not?

    Thanks very much for your view!
    board board
  • martin52
    martin52 100% (20210x)
    standard

    1783 messaggi

    Svizzera

    Please check perforation .

    First line,all top perforation face the left,and $5(last one) have both short perforation on top and bottom.
    Second line, $1.4(1st)'s perforation is very easy to check, $2's top right cover has a long perforation.

    The single stamp($1) in right side, check a long perforation on top, and one short perforation in left.

    All are the same,and at the same position.

    They are the original stamps listed by seller.




    Our local stamp collecting Club's member can read Chinese only, almost all are old collectors, more than 55 years, they can not read the seller's title. So they don't know what's the condition said by the seller. In this situation, how can they say as or not as described? The same situation for Philatelic Bureau.



    Delcampe member know english & German,and I show images here. Hope more members can help to check: If they are as described , or not?

    Thanks very much for your view!
    • Creato 27 feb 2014 a 09:52
    • #489684
    what do you mean by "old collectors - over 55 years" ?

    I am almost 62 of Age but still VERY Young :yes:

    one of those people only has to shortly describe the state your received stamps are (hinged) This could also be done in chinese
    (translated by Sjj):deal:

    no Need for them to take care of the description.
    PP simply Needs a document to continue the process - just try it.

    btw. was no agreement possible with the seller - besides PP ?
  • mmscan
    mmscan 100% (25932x)
    standard

    148 messaggi

    Cina

    what do you mean by "old collectors - over 55 years" ?

    I am almost 62 of Age but still VERY Young :yes:

    one of those people only has to shortly describe the state your received stamps are (hinged) This could also be done in chinese
    (translated by Sjj):deal:

    no Need for them to take care of the description.
    PP simply Needs a document to continue the process - just try it.

    btw. was no agreement possible with the seller - besides PP ?
    • Creato 27 feb 2014 a 10:37
    • #489693
    Retirement age is 55 years old in China :)

    The problem is :

    Paypal know nothing about stamp condition,and they also don't know what the ** means. Paypal want "as described or not" document, not want "hinged condition" document.








    The seller replied only one email:
    "Hallo Sjj,sorry you must waite but i was in holliday. see all myofffers where i inform my customers. that the stamps are notok. ican`t undersatnd. never i have a reklamation about chinastamps" at Feb.16.

    No more reply from this seller, since delcampe shows his Last connection is "Less than 24H". It seems seller don't want to resolve this problem.
    board
  • martin52
    martin52 100% (20210x)
    standard

    1783 messaggi

    Svizzera

    Retirement age is 55 years old in China :)

    The problem is :

    Paypal know nothing about stamp condition,and they also don't know what the ** means. Paypal want "as described or not" document, not want "hinged condition" document.








    The seller replied only one email:
    "Hallo Sjj,sorry you must waite but i was in holliday. see all myofffers where i inform my customers. that the stamps are notok. ican`t undersatnd. never i have a reklamation about chinastamps" at Feb.16.

    No more reply from this seller, since delcampe shows his Last connection is "Less than 24H". It seems seller don't want to resolve this problem.
    • Creato 27 feb 2014 a 10:54
    • #489697
    if PP asks for a document, then supply them with one-
    where is the Problem?

    btw do you want to get a refund and return the stamps?

    here Pension Age is 65 - soI have a Little time left to enjoy my youth :veryhappy:
  • mmscan
    mmscan 100% (25932x)
    standard

    148 messaggi

    Cina

    if PP asks for a document, then supply them with one-
    where is the Problem?

    btw do you want to get a refund and return the stamps?

    here Pension Age is 65 - soI have a Little time left to enjoy my youth :veryhappy:
    • Creato 27 feb 2014 a 12:21
    • #489715
    yes, i want refund and return stamp., this is why I contacted paypal.

    I have told paypal the problem at the beginging. Paypal said they need document to prove if these stamps as described or not
  • wycombe1
    wycombe1 100% (89113x)
    premium

    1955 messaggi

    Regno Unito

    yes, i want refund and return stamp., this is why I contacted paypal.

    I have told paypal the problem at the beginging. Paypal said they need document to prove if these stamps as described or not
    • Creato 27 feb 2014 a 20:56
    • #489755
    As Martin52 has stated simply fax a document stating the stamps are not as described and why. All this needs to be is on headed notepaper (your Philatelic Club, local stamp dealer or similar). It can be in Chinese with an English translation. You will also need a copy of a Registration receipt showing you have returned the stamps to the seller.

    Paypal will not refund you unless you follow their instructions and only you can provide the documentation with the information they require.
  • mmscan
    mmscan 100% (25932x)
    standard

    148 messaggi

    Cina

    As Martin52 has stated simply fax a document stating the stamps are not as described and why. All this needs to be is on headed notepaper (your Philatelic Club, local stamp dealer or similar). It can be in Chinese with an English translation. You will also need a copy of a Registration receipt showing you have returned the stamps to the seller.

    Paypal will not refund you unless you follow their instructions and only you can provide the documentation with the information they require.
    • Creato 28 feb 2014 a 03:18
    • #489774
    Thanks for your reply.


    Paypal said they want document from An Unbiased Third Party(I have offered but refused).


    So , if anyone can help to say simply: "As, or Not as described" here, will be help.

    Just like what Moonstone 100% (10426x) did: "No, definitely not." Thank you again!
  • wycombe1
    wycombe1 100% (89113x)
    premium

    1955 messaggi

    Regno Unito

    Thanks for your reply.


    Paypal said they want document from An Unbiased Third Party(I have offered but refused).


    So , if anyone can help to say simply: "As, or Not as described" here, will be help.

    Just like what Moonstone 100% (10426x) did: "No, definitely not." Thank you again!
    • Creato 28 feb 2014 a 04:32
    • #489786
    You will find that as you are in China Paypal will expect documentation from China to state the items were not as described.

    As members of this board are not in China and have no way of examining the stamps themselves you will find Paypal will not accept third party opinions expressed on the evidence of photo copies or scans.

    Just get a friend to produce a document for you on headed note paper stating the items are not as described. Make sure there is an English copy and fax both to them. You are making a mountain out of a mole hill - Paypal just want verification of your allegations the items are not as described once they get this you will be refunded.
  • mmscan
    mmscan 100% (25932x)
    standard

    148 messaggi

    Cina

    You will find that as you are in China Paypal will expect documentation from China to state the items were not as described.

    As members of this board are not in China and have no way of examining the stamps themselves you will find Paypal will not accept third party opinions expressed on the evidence of photo copies or scans.

    Just get a friend to produce a document for you on headed note paper stating the items are not as described. Make sure there is an English copy and fax both to them. You are making a mountain out of a mole hill - Paypal just want verification of your allegations the items are not as described once they get this you will be refunded.
    • Creato 28 feb 2014 a 06:14
    • #489820
    Local philatelist can not read English or German, so they can't say as or not as described. I don't want to make a fake "third party" document myself.




    It seems Paypal have accepted the "document" here already. Thank you all the same!
  • mmscan
    mmscan 100% (25932x)
    standard

    148 messaggi

    Cina

    No, definitely not.

    In UK also, the same meaning is taken as in Germany, ** would mean unmounted mint / mint never hinged (postfrisch in German)
    • Creato 27 feb 2014 a 08:50
    • #489674
    Hinged condition is there, anyone can see from images.

    Thanks for Moonstone's view "No, definitely not."
  • Account eliminato
    Account eliminato

    0 messaggi

    Paesi Bassi

    I won the lot "CHINA. INTERESSANTES Lot **. MK" .

    It should be ** condition according to item title, but I found they were Hinged when they arrived. I have uploaded 3 images in this post,so that you can see their condition.

    I contacted seller, but failed to resolve this problem..


    Thank you very much if you can post your view : are they as seller described or not?


    • Creato 27 feb 2014 a 03:24
    • #489621
    Le informazioni non sono più disponibili perché l'account di questo utente è stato eliminato (Regolamento RGPD).
    board
  • mmscan
    mmscan 100% (25932x)
    standard

    148 messaggi

    Cina

    Le informazioni non sono più disponibili perché l'account di questo utente è stato eliminato (Regolamento RGPD).
    • Creato 28 feb 2014 a 10:17
    • #489858
    Thank you very much for your help!
  • Account eliminato
    Account eliminato

    0 messaggi

    Paesi Bassi

    Thank you very much for your help!
    • Creato 28 feb 2014 a 10:46
    • #489867
    Le informazioni non sono più disponibili perché l'account di questo utente è stato eliminato (Regolamento RGPD).
    board
  • mmscan
    mmscan 100% (25932x)
    standard

    148 messaggi

    Cina

    Le informazioni non sono più disponibili perché l'account di questo utente è stato eliminato (Regolamento RGPD).
    • Creato 28 feb 2014 a 11:01
    • #489872
    Yes, I will contact delcampe late.

    Thank you for your kindly suggestion!

    Junjie
  • huasinstamps
    huasinstamps 100% (14722x)
    advanced

    42 messaggi

    Cina

    Local philatelist can not read English or German, so they can't say as or not as described. I don't want to make a fake "third party" document myself.




    It seems Paypal have accepted the "document" here already. Thank you all the same!
    • Creato 28 feb 2014 a 06:35
    • #489823
    发现你一直在不断重复同样的问题，而且貌似你的英文和我一样不怎么好，就用中文回复吧。

    楼上几位已经回复的很详细了。我意见是你找一个当地邮协的朋友，写一个纸条，大意是你手上的这些邮票是贴票。然后自己翻译一下就行。不要担心PP看不懂中文。最重要的是要有邮协的盖章。

    然后还要一个原售品文字说明的截图。比较麻烦的是对“**”定义的解释。虽然对集邮的人是个常识，但是要给不集邮的人一个权威的解释文件也是蛮困难的。我觉得最好的办法是找当地邮协朋友写证明时，让他来写一下对**的定义解释。

    就是说找邮协写的这个证明需同时写清两点：对**定义的解释，和手上邮品的贴票现状。

    劝你不要再提什么齿的问题，集中在一个问题上。你不就是要退货吗？一个理由就足够了
  • mmscan
    mmscan 100% (25932x)
    standard

    148 messaggi

    Cina

    发现你一直在不断重复同样的问题，而且貌似你的英文和我一样不怎么好，就用中文回复吧。

    楼上几位已经回复的很详细了。我意见是你找一个当地邮协的朋友，写一个纸条，大意是你手上的这些邮票是贴票。然后自己翻译一下就行。不要担心PP看不懂中文。最重要的是要有邮协的盖章。

    然后还要一个原售品文字说明的截图。比较麻烦的是对“**”定义的解释。虽然对集邮的人是个常识，但是要给不集邮的人一个权威的解释文件也是蛮困难的。我觉得最好的办法是找当地邮协朋友写证明时，让他来写一下对**的定义解释。

    就是说找邮协写的这个证明需同时写清两点：对**定义的解释，和手上邮品的贴票现状。

    劝你不要再提什么齿的问题，集中在一个问题上。你不就是要退货吗？一个理由就足够了
    • Creato 12 mar 2014 a 22:20
    • #491588
    谢谢，PAYPAL已经来这帖子看过大家的讨论了---这个才是目的。目前纠纷已经达成了解决办法。

    很神奇啊，中文不会显示乱码。
  • fdbsus
    fdbsus 100% (19266x)
    standard

    88 messaggi

    Belgio

    谢谢，PAYPAL已经来这帖子看过大家的讨论了---这个才是目的。目前纠纷已经达成了解决办法。

    很神奇啊，中文不会显示乱码。
    • Creato 13 mar 2014 a 10:45
    • #491642
    Hello,
    In my sales on Delcampe I use
    Gest. - for stamped/used stamps
    * for new stamps with hinge or restant of hinge
    ** for new stamps unhinged. Clear back
    Good luck and have a nice day, François
    FDBSUS:)
  • oceania
    oceania 100% (967x)
    free

    133 messaggi

    Nuova Zelanda

    I won the lot "CHINA. INTERESSANTES Lot **. MK" .

    It should be ** condition according to item title, but I found they were Hinged when they arrived. I have uploaded 3 images in this post,so that you can see their condition.

    I contacted seller, but failed to resolve this problem..


    Thank you very much if you can post your view : are they as seller described or not?


    • Creato 27 feb 2014 a 03:24
    • #489621
    Hi,

    I am a seller on Delcampe and the rule I have is that the exact description must apply. So, Perfect Condition MNH. Means 'post office fresh' as you would buy them from a Post Office. They have never been been hinged. If the stamp has no gum it can also be MNH. But no gum must be in the description. If a stamp is slightly damaged it might be Almost Perfect Condition. The samples you show are definitely hinged and the gum is damaged. If I have any complaints I always refund, or find another perfect item. I never ask for the items back if I have posted them to the buyer. Sometimes I find slight damage on a stamp I have sold as perfect and always try to find another perfect example. If I can not I tell the buyer in any case what is always happening. By having an honest conversation with the buyer, any difficulty is always solved to the buyers satisfaction. First thing is to offer the buyer the money back. If a seller is serious about building a perfect reputation he/she must have very high standards to gain the confidence of buyers. Even if the buyer seems to be misunderstanding, it is better to offer a refund. I have had the very occasional problem where a buyer has tried to be dishonest with me, and rather than give this person a low mark I always give them a 100% to avoid a ratings war. I then just refund without question and it is just an operational loss. So, I think you should request nicely some sort of refund or new better ones. Hope this is some help.

    Geoff