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VAT changes

  • mainlypostcards
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    Vereinigtes Königreich

    I just received the email about VAT changes.

    Can we have some clarification, please?

    At the moment fees are charged inclusive of 15% VAT

    Do I read it correctly that from January we are going to be charged the same + 20% (in case of UK) of VAT on top of that?
  • Konto gelöscht
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    Italien

    I just received the email about VAT changes.

    Can we have some clarification, please?

    At the moment fees are charged inclusive of 15% VAT

    Do I read it correctly that from January we are going to be charged the same + 20% (in case of UK) of VAT on top of that?
    • Erstellt am 23.12.2014 um 03:50
    • #529937
    Die Informationen sind nicht mehr verfügbar, da das Konto dieses Benutzers gelöscht wird (DSGVO-Grundverordnung).
  • stevehillstamps
    stevehillstamps 100% (14638x)
    PRO standard

    230 Beiträge

    Vereinigtes Königreich

    I just received the email about VAT changes.

    Can we have some clarification, please?

    At the moment fees are charged inclusive of 15% VAT

    Do I read it correctly that from January we are going to be charged the same + 20% (in case of UK) of VAT on top of that?
    • Erstellt am 23.12.2014 um 03:50
    • #529937
    I have the same question. If that is the case its not a transparent nor timely way to announce a 15% fee hike for non Luxembourg customers.

    Not a good Christmas present!
  • mainlypostcards
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    3540 Beiträge

    Vereinigtes Königreich

    Die Informationen sind nicht mehr verfügbar, da das Konto dieses Benutzers gelöscht wird (DSGVO-Grundverordnung).
    • Erstellt am 23.12.2014 um 04:07
    • #529939
    I hope you are right, because that is not how I read it.

    Maybe someone from Delcampe can clarify this.
  • Konto gelöscht
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    Italien

    I hope you are right, because that is not how I read it.

    Maybe someone from Delcampe can clarify this.
    • Erstellt am 23.12.2014 um 04:15
    • #529941
    Die Informationen sind nicht mehr verfügbar, da das Konto dieses Benutzers gelöscht wird (DSGVO-Grundverordnung).
  • stevehillstamps
    stevehillstamps 100% (14638x)
    PRO standard

    230 Beiträge

    Vereinigtes Königreich

    I hope you are right, because that is not how I read it.

    Maybe someone from Delcampe can clarify this.
    • Erstellt am 23.12.2014 um 04:15
    • #529941
    I've had another look and the examples did include the current professional line -

    If you are a Professional in Great Britain, and have a VAT number :
    You do not pay VAT, which means : 10 EUR total

    Delcampe currently do VAT exclusive fees for professional (business) customers with VAT numbers, so this implies they will not change.

    I think this is just a 5% increase in VAT for UK customers.

    The rules regarding the VAT changes look to be a minefield for businesses so I do feel sorry for Delcampe. The bad news is that the EC might want to make similar changes to physical goods also. Link (http)

    On a side note, and a non expert, I'm not sure you are allowed (in the UK at least) to quote prices exclusive of VAT for business to customer transactions, you need to quote the customer the full fee that will be payable. Will Delcampe be updating their price lists accordingly in due course?





  • Konto gelöscht
    Konto gelöscht

    0 Beiträge

    Vereinigtes Königreich

    I've had another look and the examples did include the current professional line -

    If you are a Professional in Great Britain, and have a VAT number :
    You do not pay VAT, which means : 10 EUR total

    Delcampe currently do VAT exclusive fees for professional (business) customers with VAT numbers, so this implies they will not change.

    I think this is just a 5% increase in VAT for UK customers.

    The rules regarding the VAT changes look to be a minefield for businesses so I do feel sorry for Delcampe. The bad news is that the EC might want to make similar changes to physical goods also. Link (http)

    On a side note, and a non expert, I'm not sure you are allowed (in the UK at least) to quote prices exclusive of VAT for business to customer transactions, you need to quote the customer the full fee that will be payable. Will Delcampe be updating their price lists accordingly in due course?





    • Erstellt am 23.12.2014 um 04:32
    • #529946
    Die Informationen sind nicht mehr verfügbar, da das Konto dieses Benutzers gelöscht wird (DSGVO-Grundverordnung).
  • moonstone
    moonstone 100% (55446x)
    advanced

    1028 Beiträge

    Vereinigtes Königreich

    I've had another look and the examples did include the current professional line -

    If you are a Professional in Great Britain, and have a VAT number :
    You do not pay VAT, which means : 10 EUR total

    Delcampe currently do VAT exclusive fees for professional (business) customers with VAT numbers, so this implies they will not change.

    I think this is just a 5% increase in VAT for UK customers.

    The rules regarding the VAT changes look to be a minefield for businesses so I do feel sorry for Delcampe. The bad news is that the EC might want to make similar changes to physical goods also. Link (http)

    On a side note, and a non expert, I'm not sure you are allowed (in the UK at least) to quote prices exclusive of VAT for business to customer transactions, you need to quote the customer the full fee that will be payable. Will Delcampe be updating their price lists accordingly in due course?





    • Erstellt am 23.12.2014 um 04:32
    • #529946
    VAT registered sellers will have to account for VAT in the normal way in their VAT account unless they can prove that the item left (in my case say) UK. Delcampe are quite within their rights to add VAT to their fees - they are not retailers of goods who do have to show a VAT inclusive amount, so the VAT exclusive price is correct.

    This is the result of all the noise about companies not paying tax in the country in which they are doing business - anyone in the UK will be aware of the media storm here about certain large multinational companies not paying tax in the UK, and other EU countries have had the same thing.

    Let's be honest here - we've got away with it for years - after all Delcampe themselves is, as I understand it, a Belgian company, but have been accounting for tax in Luxembourg, presumably because it's a lower rate

    All that this means is that instead of paying 17% Luxembourg VAT, we will pay 20% UK VAT so it's a 3% increase on the Delcampe fee monthly charge.

    Anyone who has had concerns about non UK companies not paying UK tax will no doubt be pleased that they are also not among those who do not pay their full dues to the tax authorities in their countries, as nobody would wish to be a hypocrite!:no::yes:
  • moonstone
    moonstone 100% (55446x)
    advanced

    1028 Beiträge

    Vereinigtes Königreich

    VAT registered sellers will have to account for VAT in the normal way in their VAT account unless they can prove that the item left (in my case say) UK. Delcampe are quite within their rights to add VAT to their fees - they are not retailers of goods who do have to show a VAT inclusive amount, so the VAT exclusive price is correct.

    This is the result of all the noise about companies not paying tax in the country in which they are doing business - anyone in the UK will be aware of the media storm here about certain large multinational companies not paying tax in the UK, and other EU countries have had the same thing.

    Let's be honest here - we've got away with it for years - after all Delcampe themselves is, as I understand it, a Belgian company, but have been accounting for tax in Luxembourg, presumably because it's a lower rate

    All that this means is that instead of paying 17% Luxembourg VAT, we will pay 20% UK VAT so it's a 3% increase on the Delcampe fee monthly charge.

    Anyone who has had concerns about non UK companies not paying UK tax will no doubt be pleased that they are also not among those who do not pay their full dues to the tax authorities in their countries, as nobody would wish to be a hypocrite!:no::yes:
    • Erstellt am 23.12.2014 um 06:50
    • #529967
    Apologies for any possible confusion,

    With reference to my last post, I've just noticed I haven't quite made things clear - it is NOT a 3% increase in the fee as I said, but a 3% increase in the VAT on the fee.
  • mainlypostcards
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    3540 Beiträge

    Vereinigtes Königreich

    Apologies for any possible confusion,

    With reference to my last post, I've just noticed I haven't quite made things clear - it is NOT a 3% increase in the fee as I said, but a 3% increase in the VAT on the fee.
    • Erstellt am 23.12.2014 um 08:50
    • #529980
    Moonstone,

    If you look at your current invoice you will see it says (inc 15% Luxembourg VAT), not 17%, even though the email says that is what Luxembourg VAT is.

    So, for UK sellers the VAT portion of their fees would change by 5%.

    However, I did not think the email is entirely clear. I am not at all sure what Delcampe is trying to tell us.

    Are we going to be charged the fees we were used to + 20% (being in the UK)

    or are we going to be charged current fees minus 15% x 20%

    or are we going to be charged the same and Delcampe absorbs the difference?

    I (and I am sure many others on here) have received an email about this from Ebay, but they made it very clear, that fees for sellers are not going to change, i.e. they absorb the difference.

    I would really like clarification from a Delcampe staff member about this, so that I know exactly where I stand.

    Btw, I think it is only just and proper that VAT and any other tax is paid to each and every individual EU country and none of this "hiding" away in the cheapest tax haven.
  • moonstone
    moonstone 100% (55446x)
    advanced

    1028 Beiträge

    Vereinigtes Königreich

    Moonstone,

    If you look at your current invoice you will see it says (inc 15% Luxembourg VAT), not 17%, even though the email says that is what Luxembourg VAT is.

    So, for UK sellers the VAT portion of their fees would change by 5%.

    However, I did not think the email is entirely clear. I am not at all sure what Delcampe is trying to tell us.

    Are we going to be charged the fees we were used to + 20% (being in the UK)

    or are we going to be charged current fees minus 15% x 20%

    or are we going to be charged the same and Delcampe absorbs the difference?

    I (and I am sure many others on here) have received an email about this from Ebay, but they made it very clear, that fees for sellers are not going to change, i.e. they absorb the difference.

    I would really like clarification from a Delcampe staff member about this, so that I know exactly where I stand.

    Btw, I think it is only just and proper that VAT and any other tax is paid to each and every individual EU country and none of this "hiding" away in the cheapest tax haven.
    • Erstellt am 23.12.2014 um 17:41
    • #530079
    Hi Mainly,

    Long time no hear from! - I was being at 'tongue in cheek' in my previous post:applause:, but there is no way it will be 15% plus 20%. The 15% is the VAT element of a VAT INCLUSIVE amount - it's the same as 17% on the VAT EXCLUSIVE amount - seriously many moons ago I worked I with VAT a lot in my career. For the UK 20% becomes 16.66%.

    The idea of this ruling is that people, as you say , in one country, can't avoid that country's VAT. I can understand why eBay have said they will bear any additional cost - basically it must be by far the lesser of the 2 evils, as to administer the collection of 28 (one for each EU country) different VAT sums and report these / pay them in a range of currencies or do Euro conversions will be horrendous, so if Delcampe don't go down the same route it will be a shambles, I would nearly guarantee. I do feel for them, they are the ones stuck with all the admin.

    Anyhow let's not let it disturb the festive season, Merry Christmas.:applause:
  • mainlypostcards
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    3540 Beiträge

    Vereinigtes Königreich

    Hi Mainly,

    Long time no hear from! - I was being at 'tongue in cheek' in my previous post:applause:, but there is no way it will be 15% plus 20%. The 15% is the VAT element of a VAT INCLUSIVE amount - it's the same as 17% on the VAT EXCLUSIVE amount - seriously many moons ago I worked I with VAT a lot in my career. For the UK 20% becomes 16.66%.

    The idea of this ruling is that people, as you say , in one country, can't avoid that country's VAT. I can understand why eBay have said they will bear any additional cost - basically it must be by far the lesser of the 2 evils, as to administer the collection of 28 (one for each EU country) different VAT sums and report these / pay them in a range of currencies or do Euro conversions will be horrendous, so if Delcampe don't go down the same route it will be a shambles, I would nearly guarantee. I do feel for them, they are the ones stuck with all the admin.

    Anyhow let's not let it disturb the festive season, Merry Christmas.:applause:
    • Erstellt am 23.12.2014 um 18:03
    • #530081
    Hi Moon,

    Yes I have been rather absent recently for a variety of reasons.

    I looked at the Dutch version of this communication and it is no clearer - my other language skills aren't good enough to understand every gritty detail - I can get the gist in German, Spanish & French, but not the nitty gritty.
  • moonstone
    moonstone 100% (55446x)
    advanced

    1028 Beiträge

    Vereinigtes Königreich

    Hi Moon,

    Yes I have been rather absent recently for a variety of reasons.

    I looked at the Dutch version of this communication and it is no clearer - my other language skills aren't good enough to understand every gritty detail - I can get the gist in German, Spanish & French, but not the nitty gritty.
    • Erstellt am 23.12.2014 um 18:15
    • #530082
    The issue should actually be quite simple if they were to take the eBay approach, but something makes me worry that that might not be so here.
  • @dimitri
    Administrator
    @dimitri

    829 Beiträge

    Belgien

    I just received the email about VAT changes.

    Can we have some clarification, please?

    At the moment fees are charged inclusive of 15% VAT

    Do I read it correctly that from January we are going to be charged the same + 20% (in case of UK) of VAT on top of that?
    • Erstellt am 23.12.2014 um 03:50
    • #529937
    Hello Mainly,


    No, that is not correct. You will not be charged 20% on top of the VAT.

    In case of a UK customer, the 20% will replace the 15%.
  • @dimitri
    Administrator
    @dimitri

    829 Beiträge

    Belgien

    I've had another look and the examples did include the current professional line -

    If you are a Professional in Great Britain, and have a VAT number :
    You do not pay VAT, which means : 10 EUR total

    Delcampe currently do VAT exclusive fees for professional (business) customers with VAT numbers, so this implies they will not change.

    I think this is just a 5% increase in VAT for UK customers.

    The rules regarding the VAT changes look to be a minefield for businesses so I do feel sorry for Delcampe. The bad news is that the EC might want to make similar changes to physical goods also. Link (http)

    On a side note, and a non expert, I'm not sure you are allowed (in the UK at least) to quote prices exclusive of VAT for business to customer transactions, you need to quote the customer the full fee that will be payable. Will Delcampe be updating their price lists accordingly in due course?





    • Erstellt am 23.12.2014 um 04:32
    • #529946
    Hello "Stevehillstamps",


    That is right. Professional sellers with a VAT number are not concerned by this change and did not even receive this newsletter, since they are not impacted. The only people concerned are EU inhabitants who do not posses a VAT number (this includes professional sellers without a VAT number)
  • @dimitri
    Administrator
    @dimitri

    829 Beiträge

    Belgien

    I've had another look and the examples did include the current professional line -

    If you are a Professional in Great Britain, and have a VAT number :
    You do not pay VAT, which means : 10 EUR total

    Delcampe currently do VAT exclusive fees for professional (business) customers with VAT numbers, so this implies they will not change.

    I think this is just a 5% increase in VAT for UK customers.

    The rules regarding the VAT changes look to be a minefield for businesses so I do feel sorry for Delcampe. The bad news is that the EC might want to make similar changes to physical goods also. Link (http)

    On a side note, and a non expert, I'm not sure you are allowed (in the UK at least) to quote prices exclusive of VAT for business to customer transactions, you need to quote the customer the full fee that will be payable. Will Delcampe be updating their price lists accordingly in due course?





    • Erstellt am 23.12.2014 um 04:32
    • #529946
    "I think this is just a 5% increase in VAT for UK customers. "


    That is correct. For UK customers, today this means a 5% increase, 20% UK VAT, as opposed to 15% Luxembourg VAT. Note that as of January 1st, the Luxembourg VAT will increase to 17%, so this represents only a 3% increase.
  • @dimitri
    Administrator
    @dimitri

    829 Beiträge

    Belgien

    I've had another look and the examples did include the current professional line -

    If you are a Professional in Great Britain, and have a VAT number :
    You do not pay VAT, which means : 10 EUR total

    Delcampe currently do VAT exclusive fees for professional (business) customers with VAT numbers, so this implies they will not change.

    I think this is just a 5% increase in VAT for UK customers.

    The rules regarding the VAT changes look to be a minefield for businesses so I do feel sorry for Delcampe. The bad news is that the EC might want to make similar changes to physical goods also. Link (http)

    On a side note, and a non expert, I'm not sure you are allowed (in the UK at least) to quote prices exclusive of VAT for business to customer transactions, you need to quote the customer the full fee that will be payable. Will Delcampe be updating their price lists accordingly in due course?





    • Erstellt am 23.12.2014 um 04:32
    • #529946
    "On a side note, and a non expert, I'm not sure you are allowed (in the UK at least) to quote prices exclusive of VAT for business to customer transactions, you need to quote the customer the full fee that will be payable. Will Delcampe be updating their price lists accordingly in due course?
    "

    We will be changing this in the coming days (before January 1st), but we will quote Luxembourg VAT included, since we cannot possibly include the VAT rates for all countries.
  • @dimitri
    Administrator
    @dimitri

    829 Beiträge

    Belgien

    Die Informationen sind nicht mehr verfügbar, da das Konto dieses Benutzers gelöscht wird (DSGVO-Grundverordnung).
    • Erstellt am 23.12.2014 um 04:42
    • #529948
    Hello "Old_psotcards",


    They will fall under the same rules as private persons (see above).
  • @dimitri
    Administrator
    @dimitri

    829 Beiträge

    Belgien

    VAT registered sellers will have to account for VAT in the normal way in their VAT account unless they can prove that the item left (in my case say) UK. Delcampe are quite within their rights to add VAT to their fees - they are not retailers of goods who do have to show a VAT inclusive amount, so the VAT exclusive price is correct.

    This is the result of all the noise about companies not paying tax in the country in which they are doing business - anyone in the UK will be aware of the media storm here about certain large multinational companies not paying tax in the UK, and other EU countries have had the same thing.

    Let's be honest here - we've got away with it for years - after all Delcampe themselves is, as I understand it, a Belgian company, but have been accounting for tax in Luxembourg, presumably because it's a lower rate

    All that this means is that instead of paying 17% Luxembourg VAT, we will pay 20% UK VAT so it's a 3% increase on the Delcampe fee monthly charge.

    Anyone who has had concerns about non UK companies not paying UK tax will no doubt be pleased that they are also not among those who do not pay their full dues to the tax authorities in their countries, as nobody would wish to be a hypocrite!:no::yes:
    • Erstellt am 23.12.2014 um 06:50
    • #529967
    "All that this means is that instead of paying 17% Luxembourg VAT, we will pay 20% UK VAT so it's a 3% increase on the Delcampe fee monthly charge. "


    That is correct.
  • @dimitri
    Administrator
    @dimitri

    829 Beiträge

    Belgien

    Moonstone,

    If you look at your current invoice you will see it says (inc 15% Luxembourg VAT), not 17%, even though the email says that is what Luxembourg VAT is.

    So, for UK sellers the VAT portion of their fees would change by 5%.

    However, I did not think the email is entirely clear. I am not at all sure what Delcampe is trying to tell us.

    Are we going to be charged the fees we were used to + 20% (being in the UK)

    or are we going to be charged current fees minus 15% x 20%

    or are we going to be charged the same and Delcampe absorbs the difference?

    I (and I am sure many others on here) have received an email about this from Ebay, but they made it very clear, that fees for sellers are not going to change, i.e. they absorb the difference.

    I would really like clarification from a Delcampe staff member about this, so that I know exactly where I stand.

    Btw, I think it is only just and proper that VAT and any other tax is paid to each and every individual EU country and none of this "hiding" away in the cheapest tax haven.
    • Erstellt am 23.12.2014 um 17:41
    • #530079
    "I (and I am sure many others on here) have received an email about this from Ebay, but they made it very clear, that fees for sellers are not going to change, i.e. they absorb the difference.

    I would really like clarification from a Delcampe staff member about this, so that I know exactly where I stand.
    "


    We looked at different eBay sites (France, Belgium, UK, etc.) for their conditions regarding these new rules and eBay does not absorb the fees. They apply the same changes we are.

    It is normal that for a UK customer on eBay UK the VAT rate does not change, since it was already the same before.
  • mainlypostcards
    Account geschlossen
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    3540 Beiträge

    Vereinigtes Königreich

    "I (and I am sure many others on here) have received an email about this from Ebay, but they made it very clear, that fees for sellers are not going to change, i.e. they absorb the difference.

    I would really like clarification from a Delcampe staff member about this, so that I know exactly where I stand.
    "


    We looked at different eBay sites (France, Belgium, UK, etc.) for their conditions regarding these new rules and eBay does not absorb the fees. They apply the same changes we are.

    It is normal that for a UK customer on eBay UK the VAT rate does not change, since it was already the same before.
    • Erstellt am 24.12.2014 um 05:17
    • #530114
    Hello Dimitri,

    That is a surprise appearance.

    Thank you very much for the clarification.

    Happy Christmas.

    Marianne
  • @dimitri
    Administrator
    @dimitri

    829 Beiträge

    Belgien

    Hello Dimitri,

    That is a surprise appearance.

    Thank you very much for the clarification.

    Happy Christmas.

    Marianne
    • Erstellt am 24.12.2014 um 05:28
    • #530116
    It is indeed, haha. It's nice to return on the English forums, even though my stay will be very very brief (Elizabeth will tend to you guys again as soon as she returns from holidays).

    I hope the VAT changes make more sense now.

    A very Merry Christmas to you too! :applause:
  • Konto gelöscht
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    0 Beiträge

    Vereinigtes Königreich

    It is indeed, haha. It's nice to return on the English forums, even though my stay will be very very brief (Elizabeth will tend to you guys again as soon as she returns from holidays).

    I hope the VAT changes make more sense now.

    A very Merry Christmas to you too! :applause:
    • Erstellt am 24.12.2014 um 05:37
    • #530117
    Die Informationen sind nicht mehr verfügbar, da das Konto dieses Benutzers gelöscht wird (DSGVO-Grundverordnung).
  • moonstone
    moonstone 100% (55446x)
    advanced

    1028 Beiträge

    Vereinigtes Königreich

    "All that this means is that instead of paying 17% Luxembourg VAT, we will pay 20% UK VAT so it's a 3% increase on the Delcampe fee monthly charge. "


    That is correct.
    • Erstellt am 24.12.2014 um 05:13
    • #530111
    Thanks for the clarification, Dimitri,

    Best wishes to all at Delcampe for Christmas & 2015

    Sam
  • @dimitri
    Administrator
    @dimitri

    829 Beiträge

    Belgien

    Die Informationen sind nicht mehr verfügbar, da das Konto dieses Benutzers gelöscht wird (DSGVO-Grundverordnung).
    • Erstellt am 24.12.2014 um 06:32
    • #530126
    I'm afraid Benjamin has left us. Elizabeth will now be your new customer support rep.:cool: