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This hidden price is ridiculous

  • spoethig
    spoethig 100% (9103x)
    free

    1 message

    United States

    I thought with the new payment system, the price listed was the actual price of the item. But, with the last two items I purchased, the sellers added both shipping fees, and the Delcampe fees (10% + 0.30 euros). Why are they allowed to do this? I thought the new system would add transparency, and instead it makes the listed price inaccurate.
  • moonstone
    moonstone 100% (54742x)
    advanced

    1023 messages

    United Kingdom

    I thought with the new payment system, the price listed was the actual price of the item. But, with the last two items I purchased, the sellers added both shipping fees, and the Delcampe fees (10% + 0.30 euros). Why are they allowed to do this? I thought the new system would add transparency, and instead it makes the listed price inaccurate.
    • Created on May 29, 2024 at 7:07 PM
    • #1751984
    The seller does NOT add the Delcampe fees, Delcampe do that with no involvement from the seller. Delcampe show the total price, including their fees, on the sales listing.
  • sammlerkalle
    Closed account
    PRO free

    881 messages

    Germany

    I thought with the new payment system, the price listed was the actual price of the item. But, with the last two items I purchased, the sellers added both shipping fees, and the Delcampe fees (10% + 0.30 euros). Why are they allowed to do this? I thought the new system would add transparency, and instead it makes the listed price inaccurate.
    • Created on May 29, 2024 at 7:07 PM
    • #1751984
    The amount marked with the arrow is not added by the seller, but by Delcampe without the seller's involvement. I and probably most sellers don't like that either, but unfortunately there's nothing we can do about it.
    board
  • @miranda
    Administrator
    @miranda

    525 messages

    Belgium

    I thought with the new payment system, the price listed was the actual price of the item. But, with the last two items I purchased, the sellers added both shipping fees, and the Delcampe fees (10% + 0.30 euros). Why are they allowed to do this? I thought the new system would add transparency, and instead it makes the listed price inaccurate.
    • Created on May 29, 2024 at 7:07 PM
    • #1751984
    Hi "spoethig",

    Thank you for your message.

    Platform fees are now part of our system. However, it's important to understand that those fees are directly included in the price of the items you see. Numerous communications have been sent on this subject for the past months.

    To make it easier for you to understand, let's imagine you buy an item at 3.60€. If you check the item in the payment request you'd receive from the seller, you'll see that it was listed at 3€.
    You'll pay 3.60€ (not 3.60 + platform fees as those are already included in the price of your purchase).
    Your seller will receive 3€ for this item and Delcampe gets the platform fees of 0.60€ on this item).

    The payment request you'd receive will show you the real break down: the seller's prices and the platform fees.

    When you buy an item, you buy them at the price you agree to pay which already includes our platform fees.
    So your seller is not adding more fees, in fact aside from asking for shipping fees, they have no way to add for extra charges.

    Hope it helps.

    Kind regards,
    Miranda
  • edwardsmith1
    Closed account

    3 messages

    United States

    The platform fees are ridiculous and simply a money grab, it's driving people away to other stamp sites.
  • garysstamps
    garysstamps 100% (88423x)
    advanced

    17 messages

    United Kingdom

    Hello Miranda
    Your explanation is great but misses the point.
    This is not about the overall cost or the fact that a selling platform has to earn a profit. It is about perception of the buyer.
    Using your example, under the previous Delcampe payment system, the buyer would decide to pay 3.6e for the item. It was no concern of the buyer how much the seller earned or Delcampe charged the seller for using the platform.
    Now the buyer sees that actually, the seller is prepared to take 3e for that item and that in order to buy it, they have to pay 20% extra.
    I have reduced all my prices to try and offset the fees but have had some cancelled orders because the buyer feels they are paying a premium.
    I hate the new system but if you are going to use it just show the selling price, not the breakdown.
    I reiterate, it is the perception that the buyer has, not necessarily the actual total cost which is the issue
  • richnoddystamps
    Closed account
    PRO free

    232 messages

    United Kingdom

    This has now resulted in my store having 1 sale, not 30-40. Good work Delcampe. I am moving my items away to a different website as there is no return for all the hardwork scanning, listing, describing etc.
  • moonstone
    moonstone 100% (54742x)
    advanced

    1023 messages

    United Kingdom

    This last week, apart from 1 decent sale, has been disastrous. I suspect that some buyers continued to buy for a time after April 1, then when they discovered the difference that they would have to pay on top of the seller's selling price, have either given up or gone elsewhere.

    As Garystamps has said above, a lot of this is in the perception of the overall price being grossly inflated, rather than the overall price itself.

    I note that there has been a steady decline in the number of overall stamp listings, which can only mean that sellers are moving on.
  • Roterosen
    Closed account
    free

    123 messages

    Thailand

    Let's see if DC is open and brave enough to report some statistics after the introduction of the new fee structure.
  • RomanK
    RomanK 100% (3005x)

    1 message

    Poland

    TIME to moving yourself ON OTHER stamps website .. such a great MOVE Delcampe - BRAVO !!!
  • tris_nerima
    tris_nerima 97% (58190x)
    advanced

    449 messages

    Canada

    Delcampe's silence is deafening
  • spirou58
    spirou58 100% (3073x)
    free

    11 messages

    Portugal

    I pay from India shipping costs US$4.00
    And I pay detailed platform costs US$3.50
    Because of this situation I withdrew all my money at Delcampe.
    This is my history at Delcampe, which I think has come to an end as I've been unable to reach 3,000 transactions:
    100% average in the last 12 months over 497 transactions.
    Since registration 100% average over 2,996 transactions in total
  • tracy_barber
    tracy_barber --% (23841x)
    free

    365 messages

    United States

    It appears that since I posted in another forum, I had a message removed from here.

    Please see my message in "Advertise Your Sales" about my lower costs for stamps and shipping.

    The silence may be deafening but the Delcampe staff is watching. I have been answered a few times and that's at least decent.

    It also appears that traffic on Delcampe is decreasing? I have been starting to post my items again and more decent items are to follow. I have been reading some of the forum messages about costs and have been wondering about "is it worth it"? That includes any possible sales. I see a few visits so far but haven't had a bite on any item. The "good stuff" will eventually appear.

    I'll give it a chance for a while, but some other sites are more expensive, restrictive and nobody responds when asking for answers to questions.

    tracy_barber
  • tracy_barber
    tracy_barber --% (23841x)
    free

    365 messages

    United States

    This last week, apart from 1 decent sale, has been disastrous. I suspect that some buyers continued to buy for a time after April 1, then when they discovered the difference that they would have to pay on top of the seller's selling price, have either given up or gone elsewhere.

    As Garystamps has said above, a lot of this is in the perception of the overall price being grossly inflated, rather than the overall price itself.

    I note that there has been a steady decline in the number of overall stamp listings, which can only mean that sellers are moving on.
    • Created on Jun 14, 2024 at 8:41 AM
    • #1759487
    This sort of stinks, but I haven't been back long enough to gauge the traffic. I surely hope that some people willing to buy my items do so, but it seems there's a ton of bad vibes going on.

    Hope it gets better for you.

    tracy_barber
  • tracy_barber
    tracy_barber --% (23841x)
    free

    365 messages

    United States

    Hello Miranda
    Your explanation is great but misses the point.
    This is not about the overall cost or the fact that a selling platform has to earn a profit. It is about perception of the buyer.
    Using your example, under the previous Delcampe payment system, the buyer would decide to pay 3.6e for the item. It was no concern of the buyer how much the seller earned or Delcampe charged the seller for using the platform.
    Now the buyer sees that actually, the seller is prepared to take 3e for that item and that in order to buy it, they have to pay 20% extra.
    I have reduced all my prices to try and offset the fees but have had some cancelled orders because the buyer feels they are paying a premium.
    I hate the new system but if you are going to use it just show the selling price, not the breakdown.
    I reiterate, it is the perception that the buyer has, not necessarily the actual total cost which is the issue
    • Created on Jun 14, 2024 at 1:07 AM
    • #1759310
    Garystamps -

    Agreed that perception is often worse than the real thing. I too started out reviving my store and realized that even at a certain % of CV I apply needs to be seriously lowered because nobody will buy my items at a jacked up price and the buyer can also see the increase.

    Even at selling items for rock bottom prices, it may seem I'm paying Delcampe more than the item is worth and the buyer gets hit on that.

    I can see their point about sellers abandoning ship and not paying what they should - often times to the chagrin of Delcampe going after them to collect. I understand this is a business and they have to make a $ somewhere, but holy cow - ! - it is driving people away.

    Maybe they're looking for auction house type items and sales. If that's the case, lower priced items are absolutely doomed. Server hard drive space and the response times are much more minimum than when I first started here, years ago. I know, I'm a retired computer consultant. Only if all sellers submit 10,000 items a week will they be buried. That isn't happening.

    Lower priced items are almost doubled. This means that I have to sell in bulk or sell higher cost items in order to see any return on my part.

    I do miss the "good old days"...

    tracy_barber
  • tracy_barber
    tracy_barber --% (23841x)
    free

    365 messages

    United States

    Hi "spoethig",

    Thank you for your message.

    Platform fees are now part of our system. However, it's important to understand that those fees are directly included in the price of the items you see. Numerous communications have been sent on this subject for the past months.

    To make it easier for you to understand, let's imagine you buy an item at 3.60€. If you check the item in the payment request you'd receive from the seller, you'll see that it was listed at 3€.
    You'll pay 3.60€ (not 3.60 + platform fees as those are already included in the price of your purchase).
    Your seller will receive 3€ for this item and Delcampe gets the platform fees of 0.60€ on this item).

    The payment request you'd receive will show you the real break down: the seller's prices and the platform fees.

    When you buy an item, you buy them at the price you agree to pay which already includes our platform fees.
    So your seller is not adding more fees, in fact aside from asking for shipping fees, they have no way to add for extra charges.

    Hope it helps.

    Kind regards,
    Miranda
    • Created on May 30, 2024 at 9:49 AM
    • #1752221
    Hi -

    What about those sellers that do not charge "extra" fees? I charge something for postage and it is less than USPS does. Sellers that charge exorbitant fees ought to change their strategy, because that also drives people away from Delcampe. Some sellers don't care, it seems. (I haven't done a poll on this, so it may be hyperbole.)

    This situation has become "the home for big item sellers" and the little guy gets dumped. If that's the Delcampe strategy, please let us know so we can make decisions based on what we have to sell. Right now, we're assuming.

    Not all of my items will be .25 - .40 items. This makes me have to set them up in bulk lots or invest a lot of time organizing a lot that will bring some profit in. I know Delcampe doesn't make much on lower priced items, but they seemed to sell quite a bit when I was here before. My sales / buying record shows that and no doubt Delcampe earned some money without me absconding without paying my fees.

    And - some buyers may only want a few out of the lot I'm offering, but playing the lower price game with the buyer is a drag at times. Selling a lot for $15 and they need $3 of the items will eventually collapse some sellers into walking away.

    Just a few words on the subject.

    tracy_barber
  • tracy_barber
    tracy_barber --% (23841x)
    free

    365 messages

    United States

    I thought with the new payment system, the price listed was the actual price of the item. But, with the last two items I purchased, the sellers added both shipping fees, and the Delcampe fees (10% + 0.30 euros). Why are they allowed to do this? I thought the new system would add transparency, and instead it makes the listed price inaccurate.
    • Created on May 29, 2024 at 7:07 PM
    • #1751984
    The ,30 Euros tacked on the back of the 10% is the killer for all low priced items. It's like selling it for double the cost for anything under 1 Euro and will be a zero win for anybody. I have no problem with the 10% and maybe ,10 Euros tacked on, but anything higher tells the seller that every lot they post needs to be at least 1 Euro or higher. I use USD, but the same principle applies.

    Example: Sell a lot for .45 USD. The buyer has to pay the .45 PLUS .045 and then .30 on top Total amount for the lot is .80 USD. The CV of the item is say $1 USD. The seller appears to be selling at 80% of CV. Yikes!

    No wonder nobody wants to pay for them, even though they may like to own them.

    I wish there was a sliding scale with a cap on it so low priced items can sell as well as high priced items. Inflating the prices to match the fees is ridiculous because most buyers are aware of catalogue CV and to me - it's ripping off the buyer. I like an honest price and will not sell over a certain % of CV.

    tracy_barber
  • garysstamps
    garysstamps 100% (88423x)
    advanced

    17 messages

    United Kingdom

    The only practical way for sellers and buyers is to group low priced items together. It is impossible to sell items that have a catalogue value of say 50c now.
    However, don’t forget that the biggest player in the marketplace has a minimum selling price of 99c for any buy it now item .
    I totally understand why Delcampe does not want buyers and sellers dealing direct as they have to earn somewhere.
    However, unless I am missing something, I cannot see why a buyer cannot send a list of items they want to buy to a seller.
    The seller then lists them as a single item.
    So, instead of the buyer having 10 items all with a 30p listing fee and 10% buying fee, they only have one 30p charge and 10%.
    You are not dealing outside Delcampe so I cannot see you are breaking any rules!
    Just an idea!
  • stevehillstamps
    stevehillstamps 100% (14576x)
    PRO standard

    223 messages

    United Kingdom

    The only practical way for sellers and buyers is to group low priced items together. It is impossible to sell items that have a catalogue value of say 50c now.
    However, don’t forget that the biggest player in the marketplace has a minimum selling price of 99c for any buy it now item .
    I totally understand why Delcampe does not want buyers and sellers dealing direct as they have to earn somewhere.
    However, unless I am missing something, I cannot see why a buyer cannot send a list of items they want to buy to a seller.
    The seller then lists them as a single item.
    So, instead of the buyer having 10 items all with a 30p listing fee and 10% buying fee, they only have one 30p charge and 10%.
    You are not dealing outside Delcampe so I cannot see you are breaking any rules!
    Just an idea!
    • Created on Jul 8, 2024 at 12:33 PM
    • #1768665
    You'd be breaking one of the terms of using the messaging system (section 8.2.1) if you requested a seller bundle a number of lots together which were already on Delcampe to avoid fees. You'd break this clause as you are seeking to avoid the fees on said items.

    - They may not contain any solicitations for the sale, purchase or exchange of one or more items, whether listed on Delcampe or not, to avoid paying commissions for the services provided by Delcampe.
  • garysstamps
    garysstamps 100% (88423x)
    advanced

    17 messages

    United Kingdom

    You'd be breaking one of the terms of using the messaging system (section 8.2.1) if you requested a seller bundle a number of lots together which were already on Delcampe to avoid fees. You'd break this clause as you are seeking to avoid the fees on said items.

    - They may not contain any solicitations for the sale, purchase or exchange of one or more items, whether listed on Delcampe or not, to avoid paying commissions for the services provided by Delcampe.
    • Created on Jul 8, 2024 at 1:17 PM
    • #1768683
    Thanks Steve.
    I am so anti the current structure I was just thinking outside the box!
    Guess it is back to unhappy buyers then!
  • kildonanstamps
    kildonanstamps 100% (4066x)
    standard

    10 messages

    Canada

    Delcampe is not worth the effort or risk anymore. Too expensive and too few sales. They have managed to scare all the buyers away.

    Just trying to alert sellers of recent scams will result in your post being deleted, because "Delcampe was not hacked in May 2024".
  • tracy_barber
    tracy_barber --% (23841x)
    free

    365 messages

    United States

    The only practical way for sellers and buyers is to group low priced items together. It is impossible to sell items that have a catalogue value of say 50c now.
    However, don’t forget that the biggest player in the marketplace has a minimum selling price of 99c for any buy it now item .
    I totally understand why Delcampe does not want buyers and sellers dealing direct as they have to earn somewhere.
    However, unless I am missing something, I cannot see why a buyer cannot send a list of items they want to buy to a seller.
    The seller then lists them as a single item.
    So, instead of the buyer having 10 items all with a 30p listing fee and 10% buying fee, they only have one 30p charge and 10%.
    You are not dealing outside Delcampe so I cannot see you are breaking any rules!
    Just an idea!
    • Created on Jul 8, 2024 at 12:33 PM
    • #1768665
    Yes, this is the conclusion I came to as well. I have only posted 175 items or so since I started about a week ago. I have had to make changes to what I sell, how I sell it and my postage rates 3 times since I started. :dunno: I didn't mind the seller taking the "hit" back in the day but since then, it's more severe on the buyer than it was on the seller!

    And I thought I read the whole Charter and checked out the selling conditions, which I did - but didn't see it until I posted said lots.

    I won't say anything further until I make up my mind what to do in the future. Yes, the problem with grouping stamps together is that many buyers won't buy the lot because they only need a few of the stamps and if you promote "selective selling" for buyers, you're belly up in the bathtub with Delcampe! Lose-Lose situation. :crazy:

    I don't know if there's any way to be a seller and come to a decent compromise. And the buyers get hooked on the fees (which I believe are a bit high on the per sale .30 but the 10% is OK).

    I remember a discussion several years ago when there was squabbling over people selling low priced items. As my feedback shows, it must've gone well. I also sold better items too.. Well, be careful what you wish for, now you can't.

    I have (truly) maybe 2 million stamps and of them, most are going up for sale. How?
  • tracy_barber
    tracy_barber --% (23841x)
    free

    365 messages

    United States

    Delcampe is not worth the effort or risk anymore. Too expensive and too few sales. They have managed to scare all the buyers away.

    Just trying to alert sellers of recent scams will result in your post being deleted, because "Delcampe was not hacked in May 2024".
    • Created on Jul 8, 2024 at 9:53 PM
    • #1768758
    I didn't know that. I keep it hush hush for now. :)
  • tracy_barber
    tracy_barber --% (23841x)
    free

    365 messages

    United States

    You'd be breaking one of the terms of using the messaging system (section 8.2.1) if you requested a seller bundle a number of lots together which were already on Delcampe to avoid fees. You'd break this clause as you are seeking to avoid the fees on said items.

    - They may not contain any solicitations for the sale, purchase or exchange of one or more items, whether listed on Delcampe or not, to avoid paying commissions for the services provided by Delcampe.
    • Created on Jul 8, 2024 at 1:17 PM
    • #1768683
    I didn't even think of this, but did read the Charter before posting items again. In fact, I'd try to steer away from that because my stock is kind of unorganized and would take a lot longer to do "specialty lots", unless the price was good. I won't do that, because once your name hits the blacklist, it sometimes migrates to other selling sites and you get a bad rep by word of mouth as well as a bonk on the head from Delcampe. :fight3:
  • stevehillstamps
    stevehillstamps 100% (14576x)
    PRO standard

    223 messages

    United Kingdom

    I didn't even think of this, but did read the Charter before posting items again. In fact, I'd try to steer away from that because my stock is kind of unorganized and would take a lot longer to do "specialty lots", unless the price was good. I won't do that, because once your name hits the blacklist, it sometimes migrates to other selling sites and you get a bad rep by word of mouth as well as a bonk on the head from Delcampe. :fight3:
    • Created on Jul 8, 2024 at 10:58 PM
    • #1768767
    You're fine if you want to group lots yourself (even previously listed ones). The only time you are going to get bonked is if you are actively colluding with a buyer to avoid fees, or promoting that service in your blurb.

    Like you I sell a lot of lower value lots. I was a seller only here for a number of years but have recently reopened my shop on the large site. I only list manually so the quick API solutions were not available to me.

    My compromise under the new system is that I was selling definitives singly. I'll now only do this for high catelogue value ones, with the remainder going into a single lot of the same condition (Used/MH). Commemoratives are still being listed in sets as I can think of no way of combining neatly. I'm actively removing old stock here to relist under the my new listing scheme.

    As sales have slowed down here (as I anticipated when I first saw their proposal) once this new lot has been created I'll then consider where to list it. Unfortunately for Delcampe for higher value lots I'm listing elsewhere (and then creating a duplicate lot for here if I can - often with fewer values). The lots tend to sell faster over there and the fees are now so similar (even cheaper in some cases) that the slower selling time here means I need to move stock.

    My store has shrunk from 10.5k listings to under 8k listings which is what Delcampe wanted, and is still shrinking. I'm now getting higher sales overall thanks to sales on the other site, and my lower value lots continue to be listed here for buyers to fill the odd space (albeit with a hefty delcampe fee markup).

    I still prefer delcampe to the moustashe site to list as it is more compliant with UK/EU law for sellers over here (Distance Selling, IOSS, Consumer Waste etc) so I can see there may be a time that the moustashe site have to exit the market here (as Delcampe have in some USA states due to your complex sales tax regieme). Delcampe's analysis that the EU market is getting more regulation is correct, it's getting harder to sell within and into.

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