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Delcampe Fees

  • hoatzinstamps
    hoatzinstamps 100% (127842x)
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    1114 Beiträge

    Vereinigtes Königreich

    Just received another invoice from Delcampe - a recalculation of the fees which I don't understand.

    I already settled the first invoice on 1st January.

    Now it seems that payment isn't taken into account / offset against the new calculation (which I don't understand anyway).

    Any clues?

    Alan Catherall
    [Hoatzinstamps]
  • moonstone
    moonstone 100% (54307x)
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    1023 Beiträge

    Vereinigtes Königreich

    Just received another invoice from Delcampe - a recalculation of the fees which I don't understand.

    I already settled the first invoice on 1st January.

    Now it seems that payment isn't taken into account / offset against the new calculation (which I don't understand anyway).

    Any clues?

    Alan Catherall
    [Hoatzinstamps]
    • Erstellt am 04.01.2021 um 11:09
    • #1231265
    Alan,

    I believe what has happened is that they forgot to add the VAT to the December invoice - in mine the difference between what I paid on the 1st and the new bill today is exactly 20%

    Instead of sending out bills for the additional 20%, they have wrongly sent out bills for the whole thing again and basically made a total horlicks of it.

    Try adding 20% to what you have already paid for December and if this, PLUS what you already paid, is what you have now been billed for, I think you will find that is where it comes from.

    I have already messaged Miranda to tell her this, but they'll all be away home now for the day so we won't hear anything, I wouldn't think, until tomorrow.

    regards
    Sam
  • hoatzinstamps
    hoatzinstamps 100% (127842x)
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    1114 Beiträge

    Vereinigtes Königreich

    Alan,

    I believe what has happened is that they forgot to add the VAT to the December invoice - in mine the difference between what I paid on the 1st and the new bill today is exactly 20%

    Instead of sending out bills for the additional 20%, they have wrongly sent out bills for the whole thing again and basically made a total horlicks of it.

    Try adding 20% to what you have already paid for December and if this, PLUS what you already paid, is what you have now been billed for, I think you will find that is where it comes from.

    I have already messaged Miranda to tell her this, but they'll all be away home now for the day so we won't hear anything, I wouldn't think, until tomorrow.

    regards
    Sam
    • Erstellt am 04.01.2021 um 11:16
    • #1231277
    This is an invoice for goods supplied in December when we were still in the EU and were not subject to 20% VAT.

    In any case are U.K. businesses now subject to 20% VAT?
    I guess I'm not clear about this as well.

    All a bit of a mess.

    Thanks for your response btw.

    Alan Catherall
    [Hoatzinstamps]
  • moonstone
    moonstone 100% (54307x)
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    1023 Beiträge

    Vereinigtes Königreich

    This is an invoice for goods supplied in December when we were still in the EU and were not subject to 20% VAT.

    In any case are U.K. businesses now subject to 20% VAT?
    I guess I'm not clear about this as well.

    All a bit of a mess.

    Thanks for your response btw.

    Alan Catherall
    [Hoatzinstamps]
    • Erstellt am 04.01.2021 um 11:28
    • #1231289
    Alan,

    Check your fees history. At the end of the calculation there is a x 1.2**. This is the VAT which we have always paid, as Delcampe have to pay VAT on their fees in the EU, wherever the seller is based. This part of the calculation was missing from the calculation set out on 1 January in all our bills.

    Sam
  • jjcon48
    jjcon48 99% (30276x)
    advanced

    12 Beiträge

    Vereinigtes Königreich

    Just received another invoice from Delcampe - a recalculation of the fees which I don't understand.

    I already settled the first invoice on 1st January.

    Now it seems that payment isn't taken into account / offset against the new calculation (which I don't understand anyway).

    Any clues?

    Alan Catherall
    [Hoatzinstamps]
    • Erstellt am 04.01.2021 um 11:09
    • #1231265
    Well done Alan 20% is what they are looking for from me. Regards James
  • hoatzinstamps
    hoatzinstamps 100% (127842x)
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    1114 Beiträge

    Vereinigtes Königreich

    Alan,

    Check your fees history. At the end of the calculation there is a x 1.2**. This is the VAT which we have always paid, as Delcampe have to pay VAT on their fees in the EU, wherever the seller is based. This part of the calculation was missing from the calculation set out on 1 January in all our bills.

    Sam
    • Erstellt am 04.01.2021 um 11:33
    • #1231292
    I don't think it is quite as simple as that.
    I operate as a VAT registered business and this is known to Delcampe.
    Up to now I wouldn't be paying VAT.
    The '1.2' part of the fee calculation is, therefore, new.

    I note that the fees paid already are now showing so that the difference is what is being asked.

    Anyhow I'll see what answer Miranda provides in due course.

    Alan Catherall
    [Hoatzinstamps]
  • @miranda
    Administrator
    @miranda

    521 Beiträge

    Belgien

    I don't think it is quite as simple as that.
    I operate as a VAT registered business and this is known to Delcampe.
    Up to now I wouldn't be paying VAT.
    The '1.2' part of the fee calculation is, therefore, new.

    I note that the fees paid already are now showing so that the difference is what is being asked.

    Anyhow I'll see what answer Miranda provides in due course.

    Alan Catherall
    [Hoatzinstamps]
    • Erstellt am 04.01.2021 um 11:50
    • #1231310
    Hi everyone,


    I'll have to check with our teams to know what is going on here.
    We'll get back to you as soon as we can.

    Regards,
    Miranda
  • @miranda
    Administrator
    @miranda

    521 Beiträge

    Belgien

    Hi again,

    my colleague Marion has already replied to all of you who had contacted us on the matter.

    Basically, as you all assumed this situation is linked to Brexit.

    In a nutshell, commission fees calculated on January 1, 2021 were calculated too early and weren’t taking the Brexit situation into account.
    Therefore, this had to be corrected and was on January 4, 2021. This means that the new amount you can see in your account history is correct: Link (https) .

    Please note that, from now on, commission fees calculated from January 1, 2021 (even if it relates to previous sales) are now inclusive of VAT for all UK sellers, including taxable sellers.
    Taxable sellers will be able to reclaim VAT from HMRC ( Link (https) on the basis of the payment invoice they will receive at the beginning of February 2021, for any payments made in January 2021 (even if this payment relates to sales prior to December or even November).

    If you have any question on how to reclaim your VAT, we invite you to contact your tax specialist or accountant and directly see with them.


    Regards,
    Miranda
  • stampsnbooks
    stampsnbooks 100% (15611x)
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    27 Beiträge

    Vereinigtes Königreich

    Thanks for the clarification Miranda.

    Unfortunately most sellers in the UK are not registered for VAT as the threshold for registration is £85,000 per year. This means that we now have to pay the VAT but can't reclaim it.

    Along similar lines, from January 1st, if somebody in the UK buys something from a EU based seller on Ebay (& I assume Delcampe too?), then 20% VAT is automatically applied at the point of sale.

    My understanding is that unless the buyer is a VAT registered business in the UK, then it will not be possible to reclaim that VAT - in other words, anybody in the UK buying from somebody in the EU is now having to pay 20% more than before January 1st!

    Happy New Year
    Jonathan
  • hoatzinstamps
    hoatzinstamps 100% (127842x)
    PRO advanced

    1114 Beiträge

    Vereinigtes Königreich

    Hi again,

    my colleague Marion has already replied to all of you who had contacted us on the matter.

    Basically, as you all assumed this situation is linked to Brexit.

    In a nutshell, commission fees calculated on January 1, 2021 were calculated too early and weren’t taking the Brexit situation into account.
    Therefore, this had to be corrected and was on January 4, 2021. This means that the new amount you can see in your account history is correct: Link (https) .

    Please note that, from now on, commission fees calculated from January 1, 2021 (even if it relates to previous sales) are now inclusive of VAT for all UK sellers, including taxable sellers.
    Taxable sellers will be able to reclaim VAT from HMRC ( Link (https) on the basis of the payment invoice they will receive at the beginning of February 2021, for any payments made in January 2021 (even if this payment relates to sales prior to December or even November).

    If you have any question on how to reclaim your VAT, we invite you to contact your tax specialist or accountant and directly see with them.


    Regards,
    Miranda
    • Erstellt am 05.01.2021 um 08:45
    • #1231580
    Miranda,

    I think that it is misleading to suggest that the VAT charged by Delcampe can be reclaimed via the UK Tax authorities using the HMRC VAT Return mechanism. I suspect that it is more likely that we will have to make a claim on the relevant EU Tax Authority which will be bureaucratic, long winded and convoluted and not really suited to small traders and small VAT amounts. Net, our costs for trading on Delcampe have just gone up.

    I don't think that it is right that Delcampe has charged VAT on transactions for December since these were prior to Brexit. I can understand for the January onwards transactions.
    Of course should any December transaction be cancelled in January I would expect Delcampe to refund the VAT?

    Prima facie I can see no benefit or requirement for UK traders to register as Professionals on Delcampe anymore. Am I missing anything?

    I will, of course, seek further advice from my own accountants.

    Best regards,

    Alan Catherall
    [Hoatzinstamps]
  • stampsnbooks
    stampsnbooks 100% (15611x)
    advanced

    27 Beiträge

    Vereinigtes Königreich

    Miranda,

    I think that it is misleading to suggest that the VAT charged by Delcampe can be reclaimed via the UK Tax authorities using the HMRC VAT Return mechanism. I suspect that it is more likely that we will have to make a claim on the relevant EU Tax Authority which will be bureaucratic, long winded and convoluted and not really suited to small traders and small VAT amounts. Net, our costs for trading on Delcampe have just gone up.

    I don't think that it is right that Delcampe has charged VAT on transactions for December since these were prior to Brexit. I can understand for the January onwards transactions.
    Of course should any December transaction be cancelled in January I would expect Delcampe to refund the VAT?

    Prima facie I can see no benefit or requirement for UK traders to register as Professionals on Delcampe anymore. Am I missing anything?

    I will, of course, seek further advice from my own accountants.

    Best regards,

    Alan Catherall
    [Hoatzinstamps]
    • Erstellt am 05.01.2021 um 09:03
    • #1231592
    Miranda

    I think Alan has a very good point about charging VAT on transactions in December.

    Obviously we will have to pay VAT on sales fees from items sold from January onward, but surely sellers fees are incurred at the time of the sale (ie in December) rather than when you raised the invoice (in January after Brexit), so the additional "Brexit" VAT is incorrect on the invoice you raise in January?

    Best regards
    Jonathan
  • stevehillstamps
    stevehillstamps 100% (14560x)
    PRO standard

    223 Beiträge

    Vereinigtes Königreich

    As a UK non VAT registered professional seller I've always had to pay VAT previously on fees (as I'd expect).

    I assume they have previously been paid to HMRC via MOSS when we were in the EU.

    Now we are out of the EU Delcampe are having to pay directly to the HMRC for UK sellers and doing this under UK rules.

    From the brexit holding response on their help pages ( Link (https) I think they are still working through the VAT on packages less than GBP135. From July the EU are going to be doing a similar thing so hopefully we will be a good testbed for that functionality.
  • stevehillstamps
    stevehillstamps 100% (14560x)
    PRO standard

    223 Beiträge

    Vereinigtes Königreich

    Miranda,

    I think that it is misleading to suggest that the VAT charged by Delcampe can be reclaimed via the UK Tax authorities using the HMRC VAT Return mechanism. I suspect that it is more likely that we will have to make a claim on the relevant EU Tax Authority which will be bureaucratic, long winded and convoluted and not really suited to small traders and small VAT amounts. Net, our costs for trading on Delcampe have just gone up.

    I don't think that it is right that Delcampe has charged VAT on transactions for December since these were prior to Brexit. I can understand for the January onwards transactions.
    Of course should any December transaction be cancelled in January I would expect Delcampe to refund the VAT?

    Prima facie I can see no benefit or requirement for UK traders to register as Professionals on Delcampe anymore. Am I missing anything?

    I will, of course, seek further advice from my own accountants.

    Best regards,

    Alan Catherall
    [Hoatzinstamps]
    • Erstellt am 05.01.2021 um 09:03
    • #1231592
    The main reason for registering as a professional (other than the 10% discount!) is that you are legally required to under EU and UK distance selling regulations. If you are selling as a business you need to have your trading status, contact details etc displayed on your listings and the professional tage is Delcampes way of complying with this.

    Cheers

    Steve
  • @miranda
    Administrator
    @miranda

    521 Beiträge

    Belgien

    Thanks for the clarification Miranda.

    Unfortunately most sellers in the UK are not registered for VAT as the threshold for registration is £85,000 per year. This means that we now have to pay the VAT but can't reclaim it.

    Along similar lines, from January 1st, if somebody in the UK buys something from a EU based seller on Ebay (& I assume Delcampe too?), then 20% VAT is automatically applied at the point of sale.

    My understanding is that unless the buyer is a VAT registered business in the UK, then it will not be possible to reclaim that VAT - in other words, anybody in the UK buying from somebody in the EU is now having to pay 20% more than before January 1st!

    Happy New Year
    Jonathan
    • Erstellt am 05.01.2021 um 09:02
    • #1231589
    Hi Jonathan and Happy New Year to you too!

    As far as buying on Delcampe is concerned, note that the price is not increased for buyers. Buyers continue to pay for the price of the item with no increase.

    As mentioned in this article: Link (https) in addition to Brexit, a new European law will come into force on July 2021. This law requires marketplaces such as Delcampe to collect VAT on goods sold to private individuals by professional sellers from outside the EU, for any shipment of maximum 150 Euros. This law, which was originally intended to come into force on 1 January 2021 has been postponed to July 1, 2021. However, the United Kingdom has adopted a similar law applying to marketplaces such as Delcampe which require them to collect VAT for goods sold by non-British professional dealers sell to UK citizens, for any shipment below 150 Euros (£135). The entry into force of this law is maintained on 1 January 2021, leading to a distortion between the two systems, when this should have been avoided.
    At this stage, we cannot tell you exactly what will be done as we still need to hear from our legal advisers.

    Concerning the invoice of January 2021, this invoice is correct.
    There has been an agreement on December 24th which lead us to ask for VAT on sales that took place in December 2020.


    Have a good day,
    Miranda
  • @miranda
    Administrator
    @miranda

    521 Beiträge

    Belgien

    Miranda,

    I think that it is misleading to suggest that the VAT charged by Delcampe can be reclaimed via the UK Tax authorities using the HMRC VAT Return mechanism. I suspect that it is more likely that we will have to make a claim on the relevant EU Tax Authority which will be bureaucratic, long winded and convoluted and not really suited to small traders and small VAT amounts. Net, our costs for trading on Delcampe have just gone up.

    I don't think that it is right that Delcampe has charged VAT on transactions for December since these were prior to Brexit. I can understand for the January onwards transactions.
    Of course should any December transaction be cancelled in January I would expect Delcampe to refund the VAT?

    Prima facie I can see no benefit or requirement for UK traders to register as Professionals on Delcampe anymore. Am I missing anything?

    I will, of course, seek further advice from my own accountants.

    Best regards,

    Alan Catherall
    [Hoatzinstamps]
    • Erstellt am 05.01.2021 um 09:03
    • #1231592
    Hi Alan,

    Regarding the VAT which is now asked on sales that took place in December, note this is due to an agreement that took place on December 24th.
    The other UK non VAT registered professional sellers already had to pay VAT previously on fees. The VAT was only lifted for VAT registered professionals.
    The payment you will send in January will receive an invoice including VAT (for professional sellers). This VAT should be given back to you by the HMRC(or any other tax institution) if you are a registered business.


    Regarding the benefit/requirement for UK, or any UK sellers to register on Delcampe, well, member "stevehillstamps" said it all: you are legally required to under EU and UK distance selling regulations. If you are selling as a business you need to have your trading status, contact details etc displayed on your listings.
    On top of the discount you have for selling as a professional seller on our website.

    We understand that this situation is not pleasant but we cannot be blamed here. We are just applying the rules. We don't make them and please understand that this as much an hassle for us as it is for you.

    Regards,
    Miranda
  • gemmament
    Account geschlossen
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    312 Beiträge

    Vereinigtes Königreich

    can you please clarify what the position is for those of us who paid on the 1st of January
  • hoatzinstamps
    hoatzinstamps 100% (127842x)
    PRO advanced

    1114 Beiträge

    Vereinigtes Königreich

    can you please clarify what the position is for those of us who paid on the 1st of January
    • Erstellt am 05.01.2021 um 11:18
    • #1231673
    If you always pay VAT and have settled your invoice then nothing further to do.
    Your account should show a zero balance.

    If you are VAT registered like myself then VAT was raised on my invoice after I had already settled the original invoice that arrived on the 1st January (without VAT). I, therefore, have the VAT as an outstanding balance to pay.

    Given that the situation is very confused at the moment and with new laws being introduced affecting VAT in trading marketplaces both in the UK and EU I am seeking some professional guidance.

    Alan Catherall
    [Hoatzinstamps]
  • gemmament
    Account geschlossen
    PRO free

    312 Beiträge

    Vereinigtes Königreich

    If you always pay VAT and have settled your invoice then nothing further to do.
    Your account should show a zero balance.

    If you are VAT registered like myself then VAT was raised on my invoice after I had already settled the original invoice that arrived on the 1st January (without VAT). I, therefore, have the VAT as an outstanding balance to pay.

    Given that the situation is very confused at the moment and with new laws being introduced affecting VAT in trading marketplaces both in the UK and EU I am seeking some professional guidance.

    Alan Catherall
    [Hoatzinstamps]
    • Erstellt am 05.01.2021 um 12:07
    • #1231697
    Thank you Alan for clearing that up.
  • hoatzinstamps
    hoatzinstamps 100% (127842x)
    PRO advanced

    1114 Beiträge

    Vereinigtes Königreich

    Hi Alan,

    Regarding the VAT which is now asked on sales that took place in December, note this is due to an agreement that took place on December 24th.
    The other UK non VAT registered professional sellers already had to pay VAT previously on fees. The VAT was only lifted for VAT registered professionals.
    The payment you will send in January will receive an invoice including VAT (for professional sellers). This VAT should be given back to you by the HMRC(or any other tax institution) if you are a registered business.


    Regarding the benefit/requirement for UK, or any UK sellers to register on Delcampe, well, member "stevehillstamps" said it all: you are legally required to under EU and UK distance selling regulations. If you are selling as a business you need to have your trading status, contact details etc displayed on your listings.
    On top of the discount you have for selling as a professional seller on our website.

    We understand that this situation is not pleasant but we cannot be blamed here. We are just applying the rules. We don't make them and please understand that this as much an hassle for us as it is for you.

    Regards,
    Miranda
    • Erstellt am 05.01.2021 um 10:55
    • #1231652
    I have spoken to a VAT specialist in the UK concerning the VAT issue raised in this thread.

    My advisor tells me categorically that as Delcampe is an ‘electronically supplied service’ which is not in the UK and I am a UK registered business then it is not appropriate for Delcampe to charge UK VAT on the commissions due to Delcampe.

    Further, I am not able to recover VAT which is charged in this way unless Delcampe is registered for VAT in the UK. I understand that Delcampe is TVA registered in Belgium.

    Is Delcampe collecting and paying the VAT from UK sellers to UK HMRC? I assume not.

    I should be grateful if you would check the situation with your advisors again.

    Best regards,

    Alan Catherall
    [Hoatzinstamps]
  • grandad-47
    Account geschlossen
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    113 Beiträge

    Vereinigtes Königreich

    Confusion reigns!!
    I received my invoice from Delcampe on 1st Jan and paid it that day. Subsequently received a further invoice which was for the previously invoiced amount PLUS 20% VAT. The basis for calculation in my case is 20p per item plus 6.5% plus 20% on the total being the VAT paid by Delcampe to the EU.
    My account is now showing, not the amount of the additional invoice, but 20% of the initially invoiced amount which to me appears correct. As it's less than £5 I shan't be paying it until the next invoice.
  • hoatzinstamps
    hoatzinstamps 100% (127842x)
    PRO advanced

    1114 Beiträge

    Vereinigtes Königreich

    Confusion reigns!!
    I received my invoice from Delcampe on 1st Jan and paid it that day. Subsequently received a further invoice which was for the previously invoiced amount PLUS 20% VAT. The basis for calculation in my case is 20p per item plus 6.5% plus 20% on the total being the VAT paid by Delcampe to the EU.
    My account is now showing, not the amount of the additional invoice, but 20% of the initially invoiced amount which to me appears correct. As it's less than £5 I shan't be paying it until the next invoice.
    • Erstellt am 07.01.2021 um 07:07
    • #1232189
    You are not a Professional Seller? This is an issue for Professional (UK VAT Registered) Sellers at the moment. Given Brexit I'm not even sure that Delcampe should be charging VAT for UK Sellers at all but that wasn't a question I put to my VAT specialist. There is a question about what VAT rate is applicable as VAT in Belgium is 21% versus UK 20%. It is very confusing. It will get even more complicated for Delcampe and Professional Sellers when EU Marketplace legislation comes into play from July i.e. who collects and who pays VAT. It is a potential nightmare.

    Alan Catherall
    [Hoatzinstamps]
  • @miranda
    Administrator
    @miranda

    521 Beiträge

    Belgien

    I have spoken to a VAT specialist in the UK concerning the VAT issue raised in this thread.

    My advisor tells me categorically that as Delcampe is an ‘electronically supplied service’ which is not in the UK and I am a UK registered business then it is not appropriate for Delcampe to charge UK VAT on the commissions due to Delcampe.

    Further, I am not able to recover VAT which is charged in this way unless Delcampe is registered for VAT in the UK. I understand that Delcampe is TVA registered in Belgium.

    Is Delcampe collecting and paying the VAT from UK sellers to UK HMRC? I assume not.

    I should be grateful if you would check the situation with your advisors again.

    Best regards,

    Alan Catherall
    [Hoatzinstamps]
    • Erstellt am 07.01.2021 um 05:39
    • #1232177
    Hi Alan,

    Delcampe has submitted a registration for VAT in the UK as a marketplace, as this is mandatory since January 1st, 2021.

    Currently, we are expecting to get our UK VAT number from HMRC.

    You will receive an invoice with Delcampe’s UK VAT number.
    Delcampe will collect VAT from UK sellers from HMRC as per January 1st, 2021.

    As soon as we are from HMRC we'll let you know.


    Regards,
    Miranda
  • hoatzinstamps
    hoatzinstamps 100% (127842x)
    PRO advanced

    1114 Beiträge

    Vereinigtes Königreich

    Hi Alan,

    Delcampe has submitted a registration for VAT in the UK as a marketplace, as this is mandatory since January 1st, 2021.

    Currently, we are expecting to get our UK VAT number from HMRC.

    You will receive an invoice with Delcampe’s UK VAT number.
    Delcampe will collect VAT from UK sellers from HMRC as per January 1st, 2021.

    As soon as we are from HMRC we'll let you know.


    Regards,
    Miranda
    • Erstellt am 07.01.2021 um 08:55
    • #1232228
    Miranda,

    That is a game-changing response. Thank you.

    That information means that UK (VAT registered) Sellers will be able to recover the VAT based on the Delcampe invoices received.

    And now we can look forward to the nightmare that 'Marketplace' related legislation will bring!

    Thank you for this timely clarification.

    Best regards,

    Alan Catherall
    [Hoatzinstamps]

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