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Paypal payments in the new fees system

  • Rekening verwijderd
    Rekening verwijderd

    0 berichten

    Zweden

    You are correct in saying that the partner fees are entering the seller's account but they correspond to our platform fees. They are then deducted from your payment as they are transferred to Delcampe.

    As explained to you the other day: on PayPal, sellers pay all the transaction fees (including those partner fees/platform fees) because PayPal cannot technically split partner fees between buyers and sellers. This is not Delcampe's decision: it's a PayPal technical constraint. There's nothing that will be done on our side.
    • Aangemaakt 26 apr 2024 op 05:48
    • #1732595
    De informatie is niet meer beschikbaar omdat de rekening van deze gebruiker is verwijderd (AVG)
  • stevehillstamps
    stevehillstamps 100% (14575x)
    PRO standard

    223 berichten

    Verenigd Koninkrijk

    De informatie is niet meer beschikbaar omdat de rekening van deze gebruiker is verwijderd (AVG)
    • Aangemaakt 26 apr 2024 op 06:53
    • #1732631
    Exactly

    But as support have said 'There's nothing that will be done on our side.' which means that the only means of resolving this is to make an external complaint once they are in breach of the law.

    This could be to dispute the deduction in paypal (due to the system being used to recover costs they have not advised would be debited from my account and the refusal to provide an invoice), and/or the tax authorities (due to an invoice not being issued in the correct timeframe - 30 days in the UK case - and that VAT may be being paid by Delcampe in the incorrect juristiction).
  • sammlerkalle
    Rekening afgesloten
    PRO free

    881 berichten

    Duitsland

    De informatie is niet meer beschikbaar omdat de rekening van deze gebruiker is verwijderd (AVG)
    • Aangemaakt 26 apr 2024 op 06:53
    • #1732631
    This becomes exciting when the buyer also wants an invoice for the purchase fees because, for example, he is buying for an archive. He is then entitled to it, just as we are currently entitled to it to us sellers. This shows that the whole thing is a design error. And Delcampe made this design error, not PayPal.
  • Rekening verwijderd
    Rekening verwijderd

    0 berichten

    Zweden

    Exactly

    But as support have said 'There's nothing that will be done on our side.' which means that the only means of resolving this is to make an external complaint once they are in breach of the law.

    This could be to dispute the deduction in paypal (due to the system being used to recover costs they have not advised would be debited from my account and the refusal to provide an invoice), and/or the tax authorities (due to an invoice not being issued in the correct timeframe - 30 days in the UK case - and that VAT may be being paid by Delcampe in the incorrect juristiction).
    • Aangemaakt 26 apr 2024 op 07:18
    • #1732646
    De informatie is niet meer beschikbaar omdat de rekening van deze gebruiker is verwijderd (AVG)
  • @miranda
    Beheerder
    @miranda

    525 berichten

    België

    Cecilia will get back to you next week regarding your latest questions (they were forwarded to our management).

    In meantime, I wish you all an excellent weekend!

    Take care,
    Miranda
  • stevehillstamps
    stevehillstamps 100% (14575x)
    PRO standard

    223 berichten

    Verenigd Koninkrijk

    Cecilia will get back to you next week regarding your latest questions (they were forwarded to our management).

    In meantime, I wish you all an excellent weekend!

    Take care,
    Miranda
    • Aangemaakt 26 apr 2024 op 10:27
    • #1732733
    Many thanks. Hope you have a good weekend also!
  • 4margins
    4margins 100% (16257x)

    132 berichten

    Verenigd Koninkrijk

    Having read through this, and other threads, I can only say that I am glad I am not a seller on here. For professional sellers all these accounting aberrations read like a nightmare.

    As a buyer I nearly always use Mangopay, unless sellers specifically state otherwise, so a simple solution to much of these problems would be for sellers to remove PayPal as a payment option. Do you really need it?

    For customers, whom I presume are adults, it is just as easy to link a credit/debit card with Mangopay as it is with PayPal, and for those outside the Mangopay catchment area you could specify IBAN Transfers. If you are a trusted seller with a good feedback rating, then there is no need for buyers to insist on the additional protections given by PayPal.
  • Rekening verwijderd
    Rekening verwijderd

    0 berichten

    Zweden

    Having read through this, and other threads, I can only say that I am glad I am not a seller on here. For professional sellers all these accounting aberrations read like a nightmare.

    As a buyer I nearly always use Mangopay, unless sellers specifically state otherwise, so a simple solution to much of these problems would be for sellers to remove PayPal as a payment option. Do you really need it?

    For customers, whom I presume are adults, it is just as easy to link a credit/debit card with Mangopay as it is with PayPal, and for those outside the Mangopay catchment area you could specify IBAN Transfers. If you are a trusted seller with a good feedback rating, then there is no need for buyers to insist on the additional protections given by PayPal.
    • Aangemaakt 26 apr 2024 op 15:19
    • #1732931
    De informatie is niet meer beschikbaar omdat de rekening van deze gebruiker is verwijderd (AVG)
  • 4margins
    4margins 100% (16257x)

    132 berichten

    Verenigd Koninkrijk

    De informatie is niet meer beschikbaar omdat de rekening van deze gebruiker is verwijderd (AVG)
    • Aangemaakt 26 apr 2024 op 16:22
    • #1732943
    That's not strictly true what you say about IBAN Transfers. These may be outlawed as direct payments between buyer and seller via the interface; but whenever I proceed to pay someone I always get the option of making an IBAN Transfer into a Mangopay account which is then forwarded to the seller. This is marked as being a "slow method" but is a fudge that Delcampe have initiated presumably to deal with those buyers who are outside the normal catchment area for Mangopay.
  • Rekening verwijderd
    Rekening verwijderd

    0 berichten

    Zweden

    That's not strictly true what you say about IBAN Transfers. These may be outlawed as direct payments between buyer and seller via the interface; but whenever I proceed to pay someone I always get the option of making an IBAN Transfer into a Mangopay account which is then forwarded to the seller. This is marked as being a "slow method" but is a fudge that Delcampe have initiated presumably to deal with those buyers who are outside the normal catchment area for Mangopay.
    • Aangemaakt 26 apr 2024 op 16:48
    • #1732949
    De informatie is niet meer beschikbaar omdat de rekening van deze gebruiker is verwijderd (AVG)
  • stevehillstamps
    stevehillstamps 100% (14575x)
    PRO standard

    223 berichten

    Verenigd Koninkrijk

    Cecilia will get back to you next week regarding your latest questions (they were forwarded to our management).

    In meantime, I wish you all an excellent weekend!

    Take care,
    Miranda
    • Aangemaakt 26 apr 2024 op 10:27
    • #1732733
    Any update on these questions?
  • sammlerkalle
    Rekening afgesloten
    PRO free

    881 berichten

    Duitsland

    Cecilia will get back to you next week regarding your latest questions (they were forwarded to our management).

    In meantime, I wish you all an excellent weekend!

    Take care,
    Miranda
    • Aangemaakt 26 apr 2024 op 10:27
    • #1732733
    I'm waiting, too. It's May and I want to do the accounting for April, but that's not possible because Delcampe refuses to provide the necessary documents. "The question has been forwarded" is a sentence that we hear quite often at Delcampe - and then we usually don't hear anything anymore. But this Delcampe system won't work here. We need this bill very urgently. It is your idea to collect the fees like this, then of course you have to do everything related to it.
  • @elise
    Beheerder
    @elise

    806 berichten

    België

    Hello,

    The questions have forwarded and we're still waiting for more information.

    We will get back to you as soon as possible.

    Best regards,

    The Delcampe Team
  • stevehillstamps
    stevehillstamps 100% (14575x)
    PRO standard

    223 berichten

    Verenigd Koninkrijk

    Hello,

    The questions have forwarded and we're still waiting for more information.

    We will get back to you as soon as possible.

    Best regards,

    The Delcampe Team
    • Aangemaakt 2 mei 2024 op 09:59
    • #1736789
    Any progress on these, its now been two weeks waiting for a responce.
  • @miranda
    Beheerder
    @miranda

    525 berichten

    België

    Thank you for the confirmation that you have noticed the technical issue.

    What juristiction is VAT is being paid on the 'buyer fees' (buyer, seller or Delcampe).

    Can you confirm if the same technical issue occurs in Mangopay, or that buyer fees do not enter the sellers account at all?
    • Aangemaakt 26 apr 2024 op 05:58
    • #1732601
    Hi Steve,

    Regarding what juristiction is VAT is being paid on the 'buyer fees' (buyer, seller or Delcampe), it's the buyer's. When it comes to the buyer's fee, we declare VAT in the buyer's country.

    Contrary to PayPal, buyer fees do not enter the seller's account at all with Mangopay.
  • @miranda
    Beheerder
    @miranda

    525 berichten

    België

    And because the entire amount enters our account, we also have to declare the entire amount to the tax office. We receive an invoice for each reduction, which we can then claim. No invoice, no tax reduction. We receive a statement from PayPal for the PayPal fees. That's good. But we also need an invoice for the Delcampe fees when we declare them to the tax office. And since the money goes to you, we also need the invoice from you. If we make 1000 PayPal payments with 1 euro Delcampe fees each, we would otherwise have to pay taxes for the 1000 euros Delcampe fees.
    • Aangemaakt 26 apr 2024 op 06:48
    • #1732625
    Hi "sammlerkalle",

    We cannot provide you with an invoice for this because you no longer have commission fees.

    Currently you have PayPal fees on the total paid by the buyer and this is what you'll have to declare.
    PayPal fees fall onto the seller's account, whereas platform fees fall onto the buyer with their own VAT.

    For instance:

    Item put on sale at €100
    Price seen by the buyer €110.30
    The seller will have PayPal fees on €110.30, so approximately €4.10 (0.35€+3.4%) and €100 seller's revenue.

    Delcampe declares VAT in the buyer's country on our platform fees (€10.30), and we are taxed on those €10.30 - VAT
  • Rekening verwijderd
    Rekening verwijderd

    0 berichten

    Zweden

    De informatie is niet meer beschikbaar omdat de rekening van deze gebruiker is verwijderd (AVG)
  • Rekening verwijderd
    Rekening verwijderd

    0 berichten

    Zweden

    De informatie is niet meer beschikbaar omdat de rekening van deze gebruiker is verwijderd (AVG)
    • Aangemaakt 13 mei 2024 op 09:05
    • #1741835
    De informatie is niet meer beschikbaar omdat de rekening van deze gebruiker is verwijderd (AVG)
  • @miranda
    Beheerder
    @miranda

    525 berichten

    België

    We heard your feedback and we understand that the way the PayPal invoices are presented are different from before.

    Accounting wise a difference needs to be made between your income (what you receive from your buyers) and the costs you incur (PayPal fees) :
    - the Delcampe invoice we present to you in your Sales page allows you to see all of your income. The new version also clearly mentions the exact amount the seller has received and should thus pose no problem fiscally
    - the PayPal invoice on the other hand allows you to deduct your costs

    So for example, for an item put on sale at €100 and for which the buyer paid €110.30, the seller will have PayPal fees on €110.30, so approximately €4.10 (0.35€+3.4%) and €100 seller's revenue.
    Delcampe declares VAT in the buyer's country on our platform fees (€10.30), and we are taxed on those €10.30 – VAT

    We understand that this way of proceeding is different than before and may require some changes in the way you operate.
    But they should allow you to put in order your accounting.
    No further changes to this interface are planned.

    If you have any further question on how to proceed with your taxes, we encourage you to contact an accountant.

    Thank you for your understanding.

    Have a lovely day!
  • stevehillstamps
    stevehillstamps 100% (14575x)
    PRO standard

    223 berichten

    Verenigd Koninkrijk

    Hi Steve,

    Regarding what juristiction is VAT is being paid on the 'buyer fees' (buyer, seller or Delcampe), it's the buyer's. When it comes to the buyer's fee, we declare VAT in the buyer's country.

    Contrary to PayPal, buyer fees do not enter the seller's account at all with Mangopay.
    • Aangemaakt 13 mei 2024 op 07:46
    • #1741778
    Thanks for getting back to me, I'll take this forward with my accountant and get back if they have any further queries.
  • mjocovers
    mjocovers 100% (30463x)
    standard

    467 berichten

    Verenigd Koninkrijk

    Hi "sammlerkalle",

    We cannot provide you with an invoice for this because you no longer have commission fees.

    Currently you have PayPal fees on the total paid by the buyer and this is what you'll have to declare.
    PayPal fees fall onto the seller's account, whereas platform fees fall onto the buyer with their own VAT.

    For instance:

    Item put on sale at €100
    Price seen by the buyer €110.30
    The seller will have PayPal fees on €110.30, so approximately €4.10 (0.35€+3.4%) and €100 seller's revenue.

    Delcampe declares VAT in the buyer's country on our platform fees (€10.30), and we are taxed on those €10.30 - VAT
    • Aangemaakt 13 mei 2024 op 08:10
    • #1741784
    But you previously confirmed that platform fees fall onto the seller not the buyer. It is the sellers who pay the partner fees.
    board
  • Rekening verwijderd
    Rekening verwijderd

    0 berichten

    Zweden

    But you previously confirmed that platform fees fall onto the seller not the buyer. It is the sellers who pay the partner fees.
    • Aangemaakt 14 mei 2024 op 11:48
    • #1742645
    De informatie is niet meer beschikbaar omdat de rekening van deze gebruiker is verwijderd (AVG)
  • mjocovers
    mjocovers 100% (30463x)
    standard

    467 berichten

    Verenigd Koninkrijk

    De informatie is niet meer beschikbaar omdat de rekening van deze gebruiker is verwijderd (AVG)
    • Aangemaakt 14 mei 2024 op 15:35
    • #1742774
    It's disheartening.
    After many years looking after my late mum, and my own ill health, I was finally planning on putting much more on Delcampe this year. I have many 1000's of covers that I have had for decades that I want to clear out, to make space, and have a change of environment in my house. (important as due to disability I spend most of the time at home) . It's not only business sellers who could have potential taxation issues without proper sales paperwork.

    I am seriously considering trying out other sites instead, before I waste too much time and energy listing on Delcampe. It's a shame. In the old days Delcampe used to be uncomplicated and fun. Now it isn't.
  • Rekening verwijderd
    Rekening verwijderd

    0 berichten

    Zweden

    It's disheartening.
    After many years looking after my late mum, and my own ill health, I was finally planning on putting much more on Delcampe this year. I have many 1000's of covers that I have had for decades that I want to clear out, to make space, and have a change of environment in my house. (important as due to disability I spend most of the time at home) . It's not only business sellers who could have potential taxation issues without proper sales paperwork.

    I am seriously considering trying out other sites instead, before I waste too much time and energy listing on Delcampe. It's a shame. In the old days Delcampe used to be uncomplicated and fun. Now it isn't.
    • Aangemaakt 15 mei 2024 op 05:26
    • #1742915
    De informatie is niet meer beschikbaar omdat de rekening van deze gebruiker is verwijderd (AVG)
  • mjocovers
    mjocovers 100% (30463x)
    standard

    467 berichten

    Verenigd Koninkrijk

    We heard your feedback and we understand that the way the PayPal invoices are presented are different from before.

    Accounting wise a difference needs to be made between your income (what you receive from your buyers) and the costs you incur (PayPal fees) :
    - the Delcampe invoice we present to you in your Sales page allows you to see all of your income. The new version also clearly mentions the exact amount the seller has received and should thus pose no problem fiscally
    - the PayPal invoice on the other hand allows you to deduct your costs

    So for example, for an item put on sale at €100 and for which the buyer paid €110.30, the seller will have PayPal fees on €110.30, so approximately €4.10 (0.35€+3.4%) and €100 seller's revenue.
    Delcampe declares VAT in the buyer's country on our platform fees (€10.30), and we are taxed on those €10.30 – VAT

    We understand that this way of proceeding is different than before and may require some changes in the way you operate.
    But they should allow you to put in order your accounting.
    No further changes to this interface are planned.

    If you have any further question on how to proceed with your taxes, we encourage you to contact an accountant.

    Thank you for your understanding.

    Have a lovely day!
    • Aangemaakt 14 mei 2024 op 04:41
    • #1742327
    Why does it say on the invoice that the purchase amount I, the seller, charge, includes VAT?
    This is not true. I do not charge VAT. Anyone looking at this would think I am charging VAT, and there are serious legal and tax implications for this!
    board

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