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VAT changes

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    • Aangemaakt 23 dec 2014 op 03:50
    • #529937
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    • Aangemaakt 23 dec 2014 op 03:50
    • #529937
    I have the same question. If that is the case its not a transparent nor timely way to announce a 15% fee hike for non Luxembourg customers.

    Not a good Christmas present!
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    • Aangemaakt 23 dec 2014 op 04:07
    • #529939
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    • Aangemaakt 23 dec 2014 op 04:15
    • #529941
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    • Aangemaakt 23 dec 2014 op 04:15
    • #529941
    I've had another look and the examples did include the current professional line -

    If you are a Professional in Great Britain, and have a VAT number :
    You do not pay VAT, which means : 10 EUR total

    Delcampe currently do VAT exclusive fees for professional (business) customers with VAT numbers, so this implies they will not change.

    I think this is just a 5% increase in VAT for UK customers.

    The rules regarding the VAT changes look to be a minefield for businesses so I do feel sorry for Delcampe. The bad news is that the EC might want to make similar changes to physical goods also. Link (http)

    On a side note, and a non expert, I'm not sure you are allowed (in the UK at least) to quote prices exclusive of VAT for business to customer transactions, you need to quote the customer the full fee that will be payable. Will Delcampe be updating their price lists accordingly in due course?





  • Rekening verwijderd
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    I've had another look and the examples did include the current professional line -

    If you are a Professional in Great Britain, and have a VAT number :
    You do not pay VAT, which means : 10 EUR total

    Delcampe currently do VAT exclusive fees for professional (business) customers with VAT numbers, so this implies they will not change.

    I think this is just a 5% increase in VAT for UK customers.

    The rules regarding the VAT changes look to be a minefield for businesses so I do feel sorry for Delcampe. The bad news is that the EC might want to make similar changes to physical goods also. Link (http)

    On a side note, and a non expert, I'm not sure you are allowed (in the UK at least) to quote prices exclusive of VAT for business to customer transactions, you need to quote the customer the full fee that will be payable. Will Delcampe be updating their price lists accordingly in due course?





    • Aangemaakt 23 dec 2014 op 04:32
    • #529946
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  • moonstone
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    I've had another look and the examples did include the current professional line -

    If you are a Professional in Great Britain, and have a VAT number :
    You do not pay VAT, which means : 10 EUR total

    Delcampe currently do VAT exclusive fees for professional (business) customers with VAT numbers, so this implies they will not change.

    I think this is just a 5% increase in VAT for UK customers.

    The rules regarding the VAT changes look to be a minefield for businesses so I do feel sorry for Delcampe. The bad news is that the EC might want to make similar changes to physical goods also. Link (http)

    On a side note, and a non expert, I'm not sure you are allowed (in the UK at least) to quote prices exclusive of VAT for business to customer transactions, you need to quote the customer the full fee that will be payable. Will Delcampe be updating their price lists accordingly in due course?





    • Aangemaakt 23 dec 2014 op 04:32
    • #529946
    VAT registered sellers will have to account for VAT in the normal way in their VAT account unless they can prove that the item left (in my case say) UK. Delcampe are quite within their rights to add VAT to their fees - they are not retailers of goods who do have to show a VAT inclusive amount, so the VAT exclusive price is correct.

    This is the result of all the noise about companies not paying tax in the country in which they are doing business - anyone in the UK will be aware of the media storm here about certain large multinational companies not paying tax in the UK, and other EU countries have had the same thing.

    Let's be honest here - we've got away with it for years - after all Delcampe themselves is, as I understand it, a Belgian company, but have been accounting for tax in Luxembourg, presumably because it's a lower rate

    All that this means is that instead of paying 17% Luxembourg VAT, we will pay 20% UK VAT so it's a 3% increase on the Delcampe fee monthly charge.

    Anyone who has had concerns about non UK companies not paying UK tax will no doubt be pleased that they are also not among those who do not pay their full dues to the tax authorities in their countries, as nobody would wish to be a hypocrite!:no::yes:
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    VAT registered sellers will have to account for VAT in the normal way in their VAT account unless they can prove that the item left (in my case say) UK. Delcampe are quite within their rights to add VAT to their fees - they are not retailers of goods who do have to show a VAT inclusive amount, so the VAT exclusive price is correct.

    This is the result of all the noise about companies not paying tax in the country in which they are doing business - anyone in the UK will be aware of the media storm here about certain large multinational companies not paying tax in the UK, and other EU countries have had the same thing.

    Let's be honest here - we've got away with it for years - after all Delcampe themselves is, as I understand it, a Belgian company, but have been accounting for tax in Luxembourg, presumably because it's a lower rate

    All that this means is that instead of paying 17% Luxembourg VAT, we will pay 20% UK VAT so it's a 3% increase on the Delcampe fee monthly charge.

    Anyone who has had concerns about non UK companies not paying UK tax will no doubt be pleased that they are also not among those who do not pay their full dues to the tax authorities in their countries, as nobody would wish to be a hypocrite!:no::yes:
    • Aangemaakt 23 dec 2014 op 06:50
    • #529967
    Apologies for any possible confusion,

    With reference to my last post, I've just noticed I haven't quite made things clear - it is NOT a 3% increase in the fee as I said, but a 3% increase in the VAT on the fee.
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    Apologies for any possible confusion,

    With reference to my last post, I've just noticed I haven't quite made things clear - it is NOT a 3% increase in the fee as I said, but a 3% increase in the VAT on the fee.
    • Aangemaakt 23 dec 2014 op 08:50
    • #529980
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    • Aangemaakt 23 dec 2014 op 17:41
    • #530079
    Hi Mainly,

    Long time no hear from! - I was being at 'tongue in cheek' in my previous post:applause:, but there is no way it will be 15% plus 20%. The 15% is the VAT element of a VAT INCLUSIVE amount - it's the same as 17% on the VAT EXCLUSIVE amount - seriously many moons ago I worked I with VAT a lot in my career. For the UK 20% becomes 16.66%.

    The idea of this ruling is that people, as you say , in one country, can't avoid that country's VAT. I can understand why eBay have said they will bear any additional cost - basically it must be by far the lesser of the 2 evils, as to administer the collection of 28 (one for each EU country) different VAT sums and report these / pay them in a range of currencies or do Euro conversions will be horrendous, so if Delcampe don't go down the same route it will be a shambles, I would nearly guarantee. I do feel for them, they are the ones stuck with all the admin.

    Anyhow let's not let it disturb the festive season, Merry Christmas.:applause:
  • Rekening verwijderd
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    Hi Mainly,

    Long time no hear from! - I was being at 'tongue in cheek' in my previous post:applause:, but there is no way it will be 15% plus 20%. The 15% is the VAT element of a VAT INCLUSIVE amount - it's the same as 17% on the VAT EXCLUSIVE amount - seriously many moons ago I worked I with VAT a lot in my career. For the UK 20% becomes 16.66%.

    The idea of this ruling is that people, as you say , in one country, can't avoid that country's VAT. I can understand why eBay have said they will bear any additional cost - basically it must be by far the lesser of the 2 evils, as to administer the collection of 28 (one for each EU country) different VAT sums and report these / pay them in a range of currencies or do Euro conversions will be horrendous, so if Delcampe don't go down the same route it will be a shambles, I would nearly guarantee. I do feel for them, they are the ones stuck with all the admin.

    Anyhow let's not let it disturb the festive season, Merry Christmas.:applause:
    • Aangemaakt 23 dec 2014 op 18:03
    • #530081
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    • Aangemaakt 23 dec 2014 op 18:15
    • #530082
    The issue should actually be quite simple if they were to take the eBay approach, but something makes me worry that that might not be so here.
  • @dimitri
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    • Aangemaakt 23 dec 2014 op 03:50
    • #529937
    Hello Mainly,


    No, that is not correct. You will not be charged 20% on top of the VAT.

    In case of a UK customer, the 20% will replace the 15%.
  • @dimitri
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    I've had another look and the examples did include the current professional line -

    If you are a Professional in Great Britain, and have a VAT number :
    You do not pay VAT, which means : 10 EUR total

    Delcampe currently do VAT exclusive fees for professional (business) customers with VAT numbers, so this implies they will not change.

    I think this is just a 5% increase in VAT for UK customers.

    The rules regarding the VAT changes look to be a minefield for businesses so I do feel sorry for Delcampe. The bad news is that the EC might want to make similar changes to physical goods also. Link (http)

    On a side note, and a non expert, I'm not sure you are allowed (in the UK at least) to quote prices exclusive of VAT for business to customer transactions, you need to quote the customer the full fee that will be payable. Will Delcampe be updating their price lists accordingly in due course?





    • Aangemaakt 23 dec 2014 op 04:32
    • #529946
    Hello "Stevehillstamps",


    That is right. Professional sellers with a VAT number are not concerned by this change and did not even receive this newsletter, since they are not impacted. The only people concerned are EU inhabitants who do not posses a VAT number (this includes professional sellers without a VAT number)
  • @dimitri
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    I've had another look and the examples did include the current professional line -

    If you are a Professional in Great Britain, and have a VAT number :
    You do not pay VAT, which means : 10 EUR total

    Delcampe currently do VAT exclusive fees for professional (business) customers with VAT numbers, so this implies they will not change.

    I think this is just a 5% increase in VAT for UK customers.

    The rules regarding the VAT changes look to be a minefield for businesses so I do feel sorry for Delcampe. The bad news is that the EC might want to make similar changes to physical goods also. Link (http)

    On a side note, and a non expert, I'm not sure you are allowed (in the UK at least) to quote prices exclusive of VAT for business to customer transactions, you need to quote the customer the full fee that will be payable. Will Delcampe be updating their price lists accordingly in due course?





    • Aangemaakt 23 dec 2014 op 04:32
    • #529946
    "I think this is just a 5% increase in VAT for UK customers. "


    That is correct. For UK customers, today this means a 5% increase, 20% UK VAT, as opposed to 15% Luxembourg VAT. Note that as of January 1st, the Luxembourg VAT will increase to 17%, so this represents only a 3% increase.
  • @dimitri
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    @dimitri

    830 berichten

    België

    I've had another look and the examples did include the current professional line -

    If you are a Professional in Great Britain, and have a VAT number :
    You do not pay VAT, which means : 10 EUR total

    Delcampe currently do VAT exclusive fees for professional (business) customers with VAT numbers, so this implies they will not change.

    I think this is just a 5% increase in VAT for UK customers.

    The rules regarding the VAT changes look to be a minefield for businesses so I do feel sorry for Delcampe. The bad news is that the EC might want to make similar changes to physical goods also. Link (http)

    On a side note, and a non expert, I'm not sure you are allowed (in the UK at least) to quote prices exclusive of VAT for business to customer transactions, you need to quote the customer the full fee that will be payable. Will Delcampe be updating their price lists accordingly in due course?





    • Aangemaakt 23 dec 2014 op 04:32
    • #529946
    "On a side note, and a non expert, I'm not sure you are allowed (in the UK at least) to quote prices exclusive of VAT for business to customer transactions, you need to quote the customer the full fee that will be payable. Will Delcampe be updating their price lists accordingly in due course?
    "

    We will be changing this in the coming days (before January 1st), but we will quote Luxembourg VAT included, since we cannot possibly include the VAT rates for all countries.
  • @dimitri
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    • Aangemaakt 23 dec 2014 op 04:42
    • #529948
    Hello "Old_psotcards",


    They will fall under the same rules as private persons (see above).
  • @dimitri
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    @dimitri

    830 berichten

    België

    VAT registered sellers will have to account for VAT in the normal way in their VAT account unless they can prove that the item left (in my case say) UK. Delcampe are quite within their rights to add VAT to their fees - they are not retailers of goods who do have to show a VAT inclusive amount, so the VAT exclusive price is correct.

    This is the result of all the noise about companies not paying tax in the country in which they are doing business - anyone in the UK will be aware of the media storm here about certain large multinational companies not paying tax in the UK, and other EU countries have had the same thing.

    Let's be honest here - we've got away with it for years - after all Delcampe themselves is, as I understand it, a Belgian company, but have been accounting for tax in Luxembourg, presumably because it's a lower rate

    All that this means is that instead of paying 17% Luxembourg VAT, we will pay 20% UK VAT so it's a 3% increase on the Delcampe fee monthly charge.

    Anyone who has had concerns about non UK companies not paying UK tax will no doubt be pleased that they are also not among those who do not pay their full dues to the tax authorities in their countries, as nobody would wish to be a hypocrite!:no::yes:
    • Aangemaakt 23 dec 2014 op 06:50
    • #529967
    "All that this means is that instead of paying 17% Luxembourg VAT, we will pay 20% UK VAT so it's a 3% increase on the Delcampe fee monthly charge. "


    That is correct.
  • @dimitri
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    • Aangemaakt 23 dec 2014 op 17:41
    • #530079
    "I (and I am sure many others on here) have received an email about this from Ebay, but they made it very clear, that fees for sellers are not going to change, i.e. they absorb the difference.

    I would really like clarification from a Delcampe staff member about this, so that I know exactly where I stand.
    "


    We looked at different eBay sites (France, Belgium, UK, etc.) for their conditions regarding these new rules and eBay does not absorb the fees. They apply the same changes we are.

    It is normal that for a UK customer on eBay UK the VAT rate does not change, since it was already the same before.
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    "I (and I am sure many others on here) have received an email about this from Ebay, but they made it very clear, that fees for sellers are not going to change, i.e. they absorb the difference.

    I would really like clarification from a Delcampe staff member about this, so that I know exactly where I stand.
    "


    We looked at different eBay sites (France, Belgium, UK, etc.) for their conditions regarding these new rules and eBay does not absorb the fees. They apply the same changes we are.

    It is normal that for a UK customer on eBay UK the VAT rate does not change, since it was already the same before.
    • Aangemaakt 24 dec 2014 op 05:17
    • #530114
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  • @dimitri
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    • Aangemaakt 24 dec 2014 op 05:28
    • #530116
    It is indeed, haha. It's nice to return on the English forums, even though my stay will be very very brief (Elizabeth will tend to you guys again as soon as she returns from holidays).

    I hope the VAT changes make more sense now.

    A very Merry Christmas to you too! :applause:
  • Rekening verwijderd
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    It is indeed, haha. It's nice to return on the English forums, even though my stay will be very very brief (Elizabeth will tend to you guys again as soon as she returns from holidays).

    I hope the VAT changes make more sense now.

    A very Merry Christmas to you too! :applause:
    • Aangemaakt 24 dec 2014 op 05:37
    • #530117
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  • moonstone
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    "All that this means is that instead of paying 17% Luxembourg VAT, we will pay 20% UK VAT so it's a 3% increase on the Delcampe fee monthly charge. "


    That is correct.
    • Aangemaakt 24 dec 2014 op 05:13
    • #530111
    Thanks for the clarification, Dimitri,

    Best wishes to all at Delcampe for Christmas & 2015

    Sam
  • @dimitri
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    • Aangemaakt 24 dec 2014 op 06:32
    • #530126
    I'm afraid Benjamin has left us. Elizabeth will now be your new customer support rep.:cool: