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packaging

  • ishmayel
    ishmayel --% (140x)

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    I buy stamps and covers. Most sellers package the items with something to stiffen the packet, such as a piece of cardboard, to reduce the risk of being bent by the postal services.

    I just received a cover that was simply placed in a larger envelope. The whole packet arrived bent with a crease all the way through. Realizing these aren't insured, is it too much to expect a seller to take a little bit of care in packaging flimsy items like stamps and covers?

  • wycombe1
    wycombe1 100% (89186x)
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    I buy stamps and covers. Most sellers package the items with something to stiffen the packet, such as a piece of cardboard, to reduce the risk of being bent by the postal services.

    I just received a cover that was simply placed in a larger envelope. The whole packet arrived bent with a crease all the way through. Realizing these aren't insured, is it too much to expect a seller to take a little bit of care in packaging flimsy items like stamps and covers?

    • Aangemaakt 25 apr 2011 op 04:02
    • #332742
    It is up to the seller to package items properly as they are (in Europe) responsible for the item until it reaches the buyer. The postal service used is the agent of the seller NOT the buyer - despite many sellers who place ILLEGAL disclaimers on their items stating they are not responsible for losses in the post - THEY ARE RESPONSIBLE!!

    With the ever increasing postal costs the inclusion of a stiffener can increase the postage cost quite consideraly as the difference in a few grammes can make the difference between postage bands. After the last rate increase here in the UK 10g costs 76p - up to 20g £1.10 - up to 40g £1.65. So if you are mailing a low cost item it is tempting to be parsimonious with packaging to save on weight. I get lots of clients who purchase items with a low value where the postage is sometimes 10 times the cost! Coins are a good example where the weight soon adds up. But if the customer is happy to pay the postage there is no problem - but there are the tight fisted ones who want to save every penny so if it is made clear that less than adequate packaging is their choice then it is their problem if it arrives scrunched up. But it would be far better for the seller to include adequate packaging in their over all costs as legally they are liable if an item reaches the buyer in less than perfect condition!
  • ishmayel
    ishmayel --% (140x)

    16 berichten

    Verenigde Staten

    It is up to the seller to package items properly as they are (in Europe) responsible for the item until it reaches the buyer. The postal service used is the agent of the seller NOT the buyer - despite many sellers who place ILLEGAL disclaimers on their items stating they are not responsible for losses in the post - THEY ARE RESPONSIBLE!!

    With the ever increasing postal costs the inclusion of a stiffener can increase the postage cost quite consideraly as the difference in a few grammes can make the difference between postage bands. After the last rate increase here in the UK 10g costs 76p - up to 20g £1.10 - up to 40g £1.65. So if you are mailing a low cost item it is tempting to be parsimonious with packaging to save on weight. I get lots of clients who purchase items with a low value where the postage is sometimes 10 times the cost! Coins are a good example where the weight soon adds up. But if the customer is happy to pay the postage there is no problem - but there are the tight fisted ones who want to save every penny so if it is made clear that less than adequate packaging is their choice then it is their problem if it arrives scrunched up. But it would be far better for the seller to include adequate packaging in their over all costs as legally they are liable if an item reaches the buyer in less than perfect condition!
    • Aangemaakt 25 apr 2011 op 10:14
    • #332819
    Thanks for your comment. I think it would be futile to try enforce legal remedies against a seller on purchases of low value items, though a chargeback from the credit card company might work. The cover I bought was 1 GBP, shipping 1.25 GBP. Since I don't buy a whole shoebox full of stuff, the shipping is usually more than the cost of the item. But for a bit higher shipping cost, I would prefer to get the packets without the item being marred with folds and creases.

    Most of my sellers use cardboard as a standard procedure. I recently inquired before making a bid if the item would be packed with cardboard; no response. If there is either no response or negative response, I would not proceed with a purchase. Would it be out of line to ask this question of sellers, routinely, before buying/bidding?
  • mainlypostcards
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    Thanks for your comment. I think it would be futile to try enforce legal remedies against a seller on purchases of low value items, though a chargeback from the credit card company might work. The cover I bought was 1 GBP, shipping 1.25 GBP. Since I don't buy a whole shoebox full of stuff, the shipping is usually more than the cost of the item. But for a bit higher shipping cost, I would prefer to get the packets without the item being marred with folds and creases.

    Most of my sellers use cardboard as a standard procedure. I recently inquired before making a bid if the item would be packed with cardboard; no response. If there is either no response or negative response, I would not proceed with a purchase. Would it be out of line to ask this question of sellers, routinely, before buying/bidding?
    • Aangemaakt 25 apr 2011 op 12:28
    • #332841
    As a seller, I would not mind at all if someone would ask me how I will ship/pack their item.
    £1.25 s&h, certainly would not cover the weight of any reinforcement in a package.
  • ishmayel
    ishmayel --% (140x)

    16 berichten

    Verenigde Staten

    As a seller, I would not mind at all if someone would ask me how I will ship/pack their item.
    £1.25 s&h, certainly would not cover the weight of any reinforcement in a package.
    • Aangemaakt 25 apr 2011 op 13:30
    • #332854
    Thanks for the comment.

    If I asked for a price with reinforcement, would you be inclined to provide it? Even for a "low value" item?
  • xtf70
    xtf70 100% (9338x)
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    Thanks for the comment.

    If I asked for a price with reinforcement, would you be inclined to provide it? Even for a "low value" item?
    • Aangemaakt 25 apr 2011 op 13:39
    • #332857
    As far as I am concerned you shouldn't NEED to ask for protective packaging - I always ship stamps either on stockcards or in a packet with card insert, and covers or postcards in a board-back envelope

    Whilst this may increase the cost of postage, I do try to use the smallest size envelope possible without causing damage to the contents; generally it is only the larger (i.e. more modern) covers which require the next size up in board-back

    My charges are shown on my items and the vast majority of items will be shipped at that price - it's only the exceptional items (and multiples of course) which may deviate from the stated rates

    Quite apart from which, you are more than welcome to enquire about postage costs before bidding - I'd rather the minuscule inconvenience of replying to an email than not making a sale!
  • mainlypostcards
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    Thanks for the comment.

    If I asked for a price with reinforcement, would you be inclined to provide it? Even for a "low value" item?
    • Aangemaakt 25 apr 2011 op 13:39
    • #332857
    Most of my items are low value and I ship everything either in a board backed envelope or with stiff card added. That's the reason why my p&p charges are a bit higher than those of some other sellers.

    If anyone would inquire about charges and/or my way of packaging, I'd happily reply to them.

    As far as I see it, that's part and parcel of online selling and customer service.
  • ishmayel
    ishmayel --% (140x)

    16 berichten

    Verenigde Staten

    Most of my items are low value and I ship everything either in a board backed envelope or with stiff card added. That's the reason why my p&p charges are a bit higher than those of some other sellers.

    If anyone would inquire about charges and/or my way of packaging, I'd happily reply to them.

    As far as I see it, that's part and parcel of online selling and customer service.
    • Aangemaakt 25 apr 2011 op 14:04
    • #332865
    Thanks to both for your input. I'll put both of you on my favorite sellers list.
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    Most of my items are low value and I ship everything either in a board backed envelope or with stiff card added. That's the reason why my p&p charges are a bit higher than those of some other sellers.

    If anyone would inquire about charges and/or my way of packaging, I'd happily reply to them.

    As far as I see it, that's part and parcel of online selling and customer service.
    • Aangemaakt 25 apr 2011 op 14:04
    • #332865
    De informatie is niet meer beschikbaar omdat de rekening van deze gebruiker is verwijderd (AVG)
  • mainlypostcards
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    De informatie is niet meer beschikbaar omdat de rekening van deze gebruiker is verwijderd (AVG)
    • Aangemaakt 25 apr 2011 op 15:46
    • #332879
    lol - spot on!

    I've tried various things to reduce a single card to under 20 grammes, but can't manage it without feeling uneasy about the level of protection.
  • xtf70
    xtf70 100% (9338x)
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    lol - spot on!

    I've tried various things to reduce a single card to under 20 grammes, but can't manage it without feeling uneasy about the level of protection.
    • Aangemaakt 25 apr 2011 op 16:07
    • #332881
    Too risky - a small stock card plus a card insert in a C6 envelope comes to round about 20g - usually just over, so for peace of mind cards and covers go into a board back envelope

    Buy them by the box-full and you can save quite a few pence on the single/small pack price too!
  • mainlypostcards
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    Too risky - a small stock card plus a card insert in a C6 envelope comes to round about 20g - usually just over, so for peace of mind cards and covers go into a board back envelope

    Buy them by the box-full and you can save quite a few pence on the single/small pack price too!
    • Aangemaakt 25 apr 2011 op 17:13
    • #332884
    I use C6 board backed envelopes.

    Bought in bulk - 500 for £58.99.

    If anyone can better that or want to know who my supplier is, feel free to contact me.

    For larger items, a piece of cardboard cut to size in a bigger envelope.
  • wycombe1
    wycombe1 100% (89186x)
    premium

    1955 berichten

    Verenigd Koninkrijk

    I use C6 board backed envelopes.

    Bought in bulk - 500 for £58.99.

    If anyone can better that or want to know who my supplier is, feel free to contact me.

    For larger items, a piece of cardboard cut to size in a bigger envelope.
    • Aangemaakt 25 apr 2011 op 17:39
    • #332886
    Probably the cheapest and most effective way to purchase stiffeners is to approach your local printer who can usually cut to size card to fit the envelope size you most commonly use. Blank these pieces of card are by far the cheapest way to stiffen an envelope containing delicate items. Also you have the choice from different grades of card (thickness and weight). You can also use them as your 'compliment' slip if you get your details printed on them as well - killing two birds with one stone'

    With regard to a seller not using correct packaging - one of the benefits of using Paypal is you can make a chargeback for 'item not as described' if it arrives damaged. Few realise that it is again up to the seller to provide the return postage/shipping for such an item (at least under European law). As OP has already pointed out you can also 'charge back' if you have paid using a credit card.

    If a seller does have unfair terms and conditions and does not accept Paypal or credit card payments then you are 'stuffed' if you buy from them and the deal goes wrong. The exception being if the seller is from your own country and you can use consumer law to get your rights.

    I am not sure what stance Delcampe take over such issues as many sellers on Delcampe have what I consider unfair and frankly illegal terms and conditions for their sales - so what effect a complaint to them would have is anyones guess - unless, of course, someone knows!
  • ishmayel
    ishmayel --% (140x)

    16 berichten

    Verenigde Staten

    Probably the cheapest and most effective way to purchase stiffeners is to approach your local printer who can usually cut to size card to fit the envelope size you most commonly use. Blank these pieces of card are by far the cheapest way to stiffen an envelope containing delicate items. Also you have the choice from different grades of card (thickness and weight). You can also use them as your 'compliment' slip if you get your details printed on them as well - killing two birds with one stone'

    With regard to a seller not using correct packaging - one of the benefits of using Paypal is you can make a chargeback for 'item not as described' if it arrives damaged. Few realise that it is again up to the seller to provide the return postage/shipping for such an item (at least under European law). As OP has already pointed out you can also 'charge back' if you have paid using a credit card.

    If a seller does have unfair terms and conditions and does not accept Paypal or credit card payments then you are 'stuffed' if you buy from them and the deal goes wrong. The exception being if the seller is from your own country and you can use consumer law to get your rights.

    I am not sure what stance Delcampe take over such issues as many sellers on Delcampe have what I consider unfair and frankly illegal terms and conditions for their sales - so what effect a complaint to them would have is anyones guess - unless, of course, someone knows!
    • Aangemaakt 26 apr 2011 op 02:26
    • #332898
    I appreciate all the constructive comments from experienced users. The seller in the incident I described, just asked that I send him a scan of the damaged goods. The fold/crease did not show on a scan, so I took a photo, which shows it clearly. I'm not sure what he plans to do. Since it is a low cost, but interesting cover, perhaps he will offer a partial refund.

    It is particularly interesting to read about the legal obligations of the sellers in the EU. Again, it would seem a waste of time to pursue anything but a chargeback through PayPal. I would just like for the errant sellers to change their packaging practices.
  • Rekening verwijderd
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    Probably the cheapest and most effective way to purchase stiffeners is to approach your local printer who can usually cut to size card to fit the envelope size you most commonly use. Blank these pieces of card are by far the cheapest way to stiffen an envelope containing delicate items. Also you have the choice from different grades of card (thickness and weight). You can also use them as your 'compliment' slip if you get your details printed on them as well - killing two birds with one stone'

    With regard to a seller not using correct packaging - one of the benefits of using Paypal is you can make a chargeback for 'item not as described' if it arrives damaged. Few realise that it is again up to the seller to provide the return postage/shipping for such an item (at least under European law). As OP has already pointed out you can also 'charge back' if you have paid using a credit card.

    If a seller does have unfair terms and conditions and does not accept Paypal or credit card payments then you are 'stuffed' if you buy from them and the deal goes wrong. The exception being if the seller is from your own country and you can use consumer law to get your rights.

    I am not sure what stance Delcampe take over such issues as many sellers on Delcampe have what I consider unfair and frankly illegal terms and conditions for their sales - so what effect a complaint to them would have is anyones guess - unless, of course, someone knows!
    • Aangemaakt 26 apr 2011 op 02:26
    • #332898
    De informatie is niet meer beschikbaar omdat de rekening van deze gebruiker is verwijderd (AVG)
  • Rekening verwijderd
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    Probably the cheapest and most effective way to purchase stiffeners is to approach your local printer who can usually cut to size card to fit the envelope size you most commonly use. Blank these pieces of card are by far the cheapest way to stiffen an envelope containing delicate items. Also you have the choice from different grades of card (thickness and weight). You can also use them as your 'compliment' slip if you get your details printed on them as well - killing two birds with one stone'

    With regard to a seller not using correct packaging - one of the benefits of using Paypal is you can make a chargeback for 'item not as described' if it arrives damaged. Few realise that it is again up to the seller to provide the return postage/shipping for such an item (at least under European law). As OP has already pointed out you can also 'charge back' if you have paid using a credit card.

    If a seller does have unfair terms and conditions and does not accept Paypal or credit card payments then you are 'stuffed' if you buy from them and the deal goes wrong. The exception being if the seller is from your own country and you can use consumer law to get your rights.

    I am not sure what stance Delcampe take over such issues as many sellers on Delcampe have what I consider unfair and frankly illegal terms and conditions for their sales - so what effect a complaint to them would have is anyones guess - unless, of course, someone knows!
    • Aangemaakt 26 apr 2011 op 02:26
    • #332898
    De informatie is niet meer beschikbaar omdat de rekening van deze gebruiker is verwijderd (AVG)
  • Rekening verwijderd
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    I buy stamps and covers. Most sellers package the items with something to stiffen the packet, such as a piece of cardboard, to reduce the risk of being bent by the postal services.

    I just received a cover that was simply placed in a larger envelope. The whole packet arrived bent with a crease all the way through. Realizing these aren't insured, is it too much to expect a seller to take a little bit of care in packaging flimsy items like stamps and covers?

    • Aangemaakt 25 apr 2011 op 04:02
    • #332742
    De informatie is niet meer beschikbaar omdat de rekening van deze gebruiker is verwijderd (AVG)
  • xtf70
    xtf70 100% (9338x)
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    De informatie is niet meer beschikbaar omdat de rekening van deze gebruiker is verwijderd (AVG)
    • Aangemaakt 26 apr 2011 op 06:28
    • #332931
    Well, you're doing all the right things just like us gnarly old veterans, so hopefully your sales (and resultant feedback) will go from strength to strength

    One other thing you might consider: Any problems with damaged or lost-in-post items, I give a 100% refund - no quibble - and if the item is low-value (i.e. not worth returning) invite the buyer to keep it with my compliments
  • ishmayel
    ishmayel --% (140x)

    16 berichten

    Verenigde Staten

    Well, you're doing all the right things just like us gnarly old veterans, so hopefully your sales (and resultant feedback) will go from strength to strength

    One other thing you might consider: Any problems with damaged or lost-in-post items, I give a 100% refund - no quibble - and if the item is low-value (i.e. not worth returning) invite the buyer to keep it with my compliments
    • Aangemaakt 26 apr 2011 op 11:17
    • #332959
    Wow, more ethical sellers to add to my list of favorites! No further response from my shipper of crumpled goods. More to follow.
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    Portugal

    Wow, more ethical sellers to add to my list of favorites! No further response from my shipper of crumpled goods. More to follow.
    • Aangemaakt 26 apr 2011 op 12:32
    • #332966
    De informatie is niet meer beschikbaar omdat de rekening van deze gebruiker is verwijderd (AVG)
  • mainlypostcards
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    De informatie is niet meer beschikbaar omdat de rekening van deze gebruiker is verwijderd (AVG)
    • Aangemaakt 27 apr 2011 op 01:08
    • #332993
    My supplier excludes the following postcodes from free delivery.
    board
  • mainlypostcards
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    My supplier excludes the following postcodes from free delivery.
    • Aangemaakt 27 apr 2011 op 03:28
    • #332998
    And if I'd looked at the whole page before posting, I could have told you in one go that they charge £8.12 per consignment on top of their normal charges for those areas.
  • Rekening verwijderd
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    Portugal

    My supplier excludes the following postcodes from free delivery.
    • Aangemaakt 27 apr 2011 op 03:28
    • #332998
    De informatie is niet meer beschikbaar omdat de rekening van deze gebruiker is verwijderd (AVG)
  • Rekening verwijderd
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    Well, you're doing all the right things just like us gnarly old veterans, so hopefully your sales (and resultant feedback) will go from strength to strength

    One other thing you might consider: Any problems with damaged or lost-in-post items, I give a 100% refund - no quibble - and if the item is low-value (i.e. not worth returning) invite the buyer to keep it with my compliments
    • Aangemaakt 26 apr 2011 op 11:17
    • #332959
    De informatie is niet meer beschikbaar omdat de rekening van deze gebruiker is verwijderd (AVG)
  • xtf70
    xtf70 100% (9338x)
    free

    1490 berichten

    Verenigd Koninkrijk

    De informatie is niet meer beschikbaar omdat de rekening van deze gebruiker is verwijderd (AVG)
    • Aangemaakt 27 apr 2011 op 03:49
    • #333009
    Fingers crossed, I've not had that experience - yet(?)

    Some years ago I sent a cover to Canada in stiffened envelope - it got all the way to the buyer's door then the postman FOLDED it to get it through the letter box!